Adhesives and Sealant
Contents:
- need help building wet/dry filter
by chuck/pierre.mit.edu (Chuck Parsons) (26 Feb 92)
- need help building wet/dry filter
by ()
- What kind of tank sealer?
by ()
- need help building wet/dry filter
by ()
- need help building wet/dry filter
by ()
- need help building wet/dry filter
by ()
- need help building wet/dry filter
by ()
- The Last Word on Acrylic Adhesives
by ()
- Aquarium sealant
by ()
- Aquarium sealant
by ()
- Silicone remover
by "James Purchase" <jpurch/interlog.com> (Fri, 2 Jun 2000)
- Removing Silicone from glass
by "Douglas Bertelsen" <dcbertelsen/zxmail.com> (Fri, 2 Jun 2000)
- Re:Silicone remover
by IDMiamiBob/aol.com (Fri, 2 Jun 2000)
- silicon sealer and CO2 - bad combination
by Shireen Gonzaga <whimbrel/home.com> (Mon, 22 Oct 2001)
- silicon sealer and CO2 - bad combination
by "James Purchase" <jppurchase/Home.com> (Mon, 22 Oct 2001)
- re: silicon sealer and CO2 - bad combination
by Brian Harmon <harmon/msg.ucsf.edu> (Mon, 22 Oct 2001)
- FYI -- Silicone Remover
by Scott Hieber <shiebernet/netscape.net> (17 Jan 01)
- GE Silicone Sealant
by "Tom Wood" <tomwood2/flash.net> (Fri, 13 Oct 2000)
by chuck/pierre.mit.edu (Chuck Parsons)
Date: 26 Feb 92
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
In article <1992Feb26.203251.17735-at-cco.caltech.edu>, laurence-at-cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee writes...
>chuck-at-pierre.mit.edu (Chuck Parsons) writes:
>
>
>I've been told that PVC glue will weaken acrylic over time, say a couple
>of years, but I don't know this. Are your PVC joints old enough to comment
>on this?
>
I don't have any PVC glue joints that are under a lot of stress. I've
go some pieces that aren't holding any weight that are perhaps 2 years
old and seem to be fine. But when I was making my wet dry I tried
2 pvc glues (one thick and one thin) and just didn't like the results
I was getting. So I got the professional glue, and now I have very little
reason to go back, since that quart of glue in the basement still
has 9 and 2/3 lives to go before being used up ;-)
I know many people have used PVC glue with success, hopefully one
of them can comment.
>I've used cyanoacrylate glue (couldn't find any plexi cement at the time),
>and it works rather well _if_ you get the stuff at a hobby store which
>comes in different viscosities. Zap and Zap-Gap worked for me, and I
This is nice to know. I had tried a tube of drugstore stuff without
much success, partly it was just hard to apply because of the little
tube.
Regards, Chuck-at-pierre.mit.edu
From: laurence-at-cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee Laurence)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1992 20:00:48 GMT
by
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
mattk-at-cbnewsl.cb.att.com (matthew.kaufman) writes:
>In article <1992Feb27.150013.7491-at-cs.cmu.edu> mleone+-at-cs.cmu.edu (Mark Leone) writes:
>>>jj-at-alice.att.com (J. Johnston) writes:
>>>>First, Cyanoacrylate glue deteriorates under damp conditions.
>>>>Not quickly, but profoundly.
Then I said:
>>>Well, the people I know who have used it didn't report any problems.
>>>care to elaborate? I keep hearing stories about how cement x doesn't
>>>work, it degrades over time, followed by other stories about how great
>>>it works. Maybe we can get some better information here.
>>An article in FAMA's _For What It's Worth, Vol. 1_ also claims that
>>cyanocrylate glues don't degrade when exposed to water. I can type in
>>the article if there's enough interest.
>And of course, we know that everything we read in FAMA is accurate, yes?
>Isn't this the magazine that also claimed to figure out the flow
>rate of a filter measure how many gallons are output in a minute then
>multiply by 24? And the following month didn't they retract this by
>saying they meant half a minute?
>Don't get me started...
>Anyway, in my limited experience with Krazy glue (using it to hold in
>some stoppers into brine shrimp hatchers), it indeed does deteriorate
>and start to leak. Other friends with similar hatcheries claim the
>same.
Well, I called the company that makes Zap and Zap-Gap yesterday, and the
person there thought it would let go over time, as J. Johnston and Matthew
Kaufman thought. He also thought that it would not dissolve or release
anything, but that the cement would simply let go of the acrylic and stay
in one hard mass. Now, I don't really trust his guess about the leaching
by itself, but since they use the stuff on human brain tissue, I'm inclined
not to worry.
Now, he was clearly making a conservative estimate, since he mostly said
things like "we don't guarantee/recommend anything under those conditions";
the benefits of a litigation-happy country. However, between that and the
other people, I don't think that I'm going to trust the stuff for long-term
joints.
He did say that the acetic acid from curing silicone cement would not hurt
cyanoacrylate at all, so that the joints should be perfectly OK if you seal
them with silicone goo afterwards. It's just the direct contact with water
that he didn't trust.
He also thought that it would hold up better in fresh water than salt (easy
guess), so perhaps those people who have had no problems were talking about
fresh water?
--
Dustin "Gail? Rinaldo's girlfriend? My Son was dating a demon?"
"Let's not be prejudiced. He'd done a lot worse his freshman year."
"You've got a point there," she admitted. "I'd forgotten Carol."
--Roger Zelazny, _Knight of Shadows_
From: hellmann-at-cs.scarolina.edu (Doug Hellmann)
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:57:05 GMT
by
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
scol-at-scottsdale.az.stratus.com (Scott Colbath) writes:
>Hi all,
> I am getting ready to seal the office tank and I was wondering if
>anyone out there has suggestions on what kind of silicone to use on it. Are
>there any brands specifically for aquariums?
Scott,
The cheapest way to do it would be to go to the Wal-mart or K-mart and
pick up a monster tube of GE silicone. It says that it is safe for
aquariums, and best of all, the monster tube only costs about $2.50
compared to a little tube of special aquarium sealant for 4 or 5. The
only thing is that you need a caulk gun, but you can probably buy one
for about $2 if you don't know someone who has one.
-Samantha
From: chuck-at-pierre.mit.edu (Chuck Parsons)
Date: 26 Feb 92 21:51:00 GMT
by
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
In article <1992Feb26.203251.17735-at-cco.caltech.edu>, laurence-at-cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee writes...
>chuck-at-pierre.mit.edu (Chuck Parsons) writes:
>
>
>I've been told that PVC glue will weaken acrylic over time, say a couple
>of years, but I don't know this. Are your PVC joints old enough to comment
>on this?
>
I don't have any PVC glue joints that are under a lot of stress. I've
go some pieces that aren't holding any weight that are perhaps 2 years
old and seem to be fine. But when I was making my wet dry I tried
2 pvc glues (one thick and one thin) and just didn't like the results
I was getting. So I got the professional glue, and now I have very little
reason to go back, since that quart of glue in the basement still
has 9 and 2/3 lives to go before being used up ;-)
I know many people have used PVC glue with success, hopefully one
of them can comment.
>I've used cyanoacrylate glue (couldn't find any plexi cement at the time),
>and it works rather well _if_ you get the stuff at a hobby store which
>comes in different viscosities. Zap and Zap-Gap worked for me, and I
This is nice to know. I had tried a tube of drugstore stuff without
much success, partly it was just hard to apply because of the little
tube.
Regards, Chuck-at-pierre.mit.edu
From: jj-at-alice.att.com (J. Johnston)
Date: 27 Feb 92 04:04:13 GMT
by
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
In article <1992Feb26.203251.17735-at-cco.caltech.edu> laurence-at-cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee Laurence) writes:
>I've used cyanoacrylate glue (couldn't find any plexi cement at the time),
>and it works rather well _if_ you get the stuff at a hobby store which
>comes in different viscosities. Zap and Zap-Gap worked for me, and I
Several comments:
First, Cyanoacrylate glue deteriorates under damp conditions.
Not quickly, but profoundly.
Second, what's wrong with a couple of 5 gallon food-grade buckets
and some PVC hardware. Works where I've seen it installed.
--
Member *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
HASA, *by USENET and like free facilities granted. Said permission is
athiest scum *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
division *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: mleone+-at-cs.cmu.edu (Mark Leone)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 15:00:13 GMT
by
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
In article <1992Feb27.070341.8017-at-cco.caltech.edu> laurence-at-cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee Laurence) writes:
>jj-at-alice.att.com (J. Johnston) writes:
>>First, Cyanoacrylate glue deteriorates under damp conditions.
>>Not quickly, but profoundly.
>
>Well, the people I know who have used it didn't report any problems.
>care to elaborate? I keep hearing stories about how cement x doesn't
>work, it degrades over time, followed by other stories about how great
>it works. Maybe we can get some better information here.
An article in FAMA's _For What It's Worth, Vol. 1_ also claims that
cyanocrylate glues don't degrade when exposed to water. I can type in
the article if there's enough interest.
BTW, I recommend this book to DIYers. It's a bit dated (no articles
on trickle filter construction), but Vol. 2 is supposedly in the
works. Annoyingly, Vol. 2 was advertised in FAMA last fall as being
"available by Christmas", but it's still not out.
Cheers,
--
Mark Leone <mleone-at-cs.cmu.edu> "Don't just do something,
Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University sit there!"
Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA
From: laurence-at-cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee Laurence)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1992 20:00:48 GMT
by
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
mattk-at-cbnewsl.cb.att.com (matthew.kaufman) writes:
>In article <1992Feb27.150013.7491-at-cs.cmu.edu> mleone+-at-cs.cmu.edu (Mark Leone) writes:
>>>jj-at-alice.att.com (J. Johnston) writes:
>>>>First, Cyanoacrylate glue deteriorates under damp conditions.
>>>>Not quickly, but profoundly.
Then I said:
>>>Well, the people I know who have used it didn't report any problems.
>>>care to elaborate? I keep hearing stories about how cement x doesn't
>>>work, it degrades over time, followed by other stories about how great
>>>it works. Maybe we can get some better information here.
>>An article in FAMA's _For What It's Worth, Vol. 1_ also claims that
>>cyanocrylate glues don't degrade when exposed to water. I can type in
>>the article if there's enough interest.
>And of course, we know that everything we read in FAMA is accurate, yes?
>Isn't this the magazine that also claimed to figure out the flow
>rate of a filter measure how many gallons are output in a minute then
>multiply by 24? And the following month didn't they retract this by
>saying they meant half a minute?
>Don't get me started...
>Anyway, in my limited experience with Krazy glue (using it to hold in
>some stoppers into brine shrimp hatchers), it indeed does deteriorate
>and start to leak. Other friends with similar hatcheries claim the
>same.
Well, I called the company that makes Zap and Zap-Gap yesterday, and the
person there thought it would let go over time, as J. Johnston and Matthew
Kaufman thought. He also thought that it would not dissolve or release
anything, but that the cement would simply let go of the acrylic and stay
in one hard mass. Now, I don't really trust his guess about the leaching
by itself, but since they use the stuff on human brain tissue, I'm inclined
not to worry.
Now, he was clearly making a conservative estimate, since he mostly said
things like "we don't guarantee/recommend anything under those conditions";
the benefits of a litigation-happy country. However, between that and the
other people, I don't think that I'm going to trust the stuff for long-term
joints.
He did say that the acetic acid from curing silicone cement would not hurt
cyanoacrylate at all, so that the joints should be perfectly OK if you seal
them with silicone goo afterwards. It's just the direct contact with water
that he didn't trust.
He also thought that it would hold up better in fresh water than salt (easy
guess), so perhaps those people who have had no problems were talking about
fresh water?
--
Dustin "Gail? Rinaldo's girlfriend? My Son was dating a demon?"
"Let's not be prejudiced. He'd done a lot worse his freshman year."
"You've got a point there," she admitted. "I'd forgotten Carol."
--Roger Zelazny, _Knight of Shadows_
From: <MAHFBF-at-rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 15:31:33 EDT
by
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
Hi,
I just finished reading the adhesive section under ftp reefkeepers in the diy
section and realized that there is a lot of confusion out there. Since I work
for Rohm & Haas, the makers of Plexiglas, I thought I might spread some light
on the subject. First let me say that I do not personally worhk in the
acrylic department, but have some experience from working with people in that
department and I am a soon to be materials engineer. Also, my company is NOT
liable for any of this information.
Acrylic or Plexiglas is actually PMMA (Poly Methyl Meth Acrilate). When things
are bilt with it, it is generaly not "glued" but solvent welded. With glueing
the adhesive itslef forms the bond between the pieces and permanatly stays the
re. Solvent welding actually works quite a bit different. The pieces of
Plexi are placed together in the desired fasion and the solvent is let to wet
or "bleed between the two pieces. They are then left to cure. What happens
is that the solvent dissolves the PMMA (in a small region). The long polymer
molecules from each piece entagle with each other while they are in solution
with the solvent. The solvent then slowly evaporates leaving behind a joint
of just PMMA with no adhesive. The solvent we most commonly use is MDC
(Methelene Di-Chloride). Also I wanted to note here that PVC "glue" is mostly
a solvent with some other additives and works in a similar fasion. Again, I
am no expert craftsman with Plexiglas, but I do know some one that is. I am
going to ask him if he wouldn't mind directly answering some questions to the
net, but I can't make any promises. If he will, I'll post his logon ID.
Hope this clears up some confusion.
------------------------------------------------Frank Fatato MAHFBF
-at-rohvm1.rohmhaas.com "My man, pots
and pans" J.M. ----------------------------
My employer is NOT liable for anything posted here.
From: frazier-at-oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Frazier)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 20:53:04 GMT
by
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
W. Smith <WMS108-at-psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I have recently acquired a used 29-gal tank that needs to be re-sealed before
>using. To avoid the high cost for small tube of sealer, I went to the local
>hardware store and bought a nice size tube of clear Plumber's Goop (brand).
As you have discovered, Goop is a great glue but a lousy sealant.
The major problem is the texture - it is just not as easy to
work with as silicone. Mail order a large tube of silicone
sealant. And don't toss the Goop; it's great stuff.
--
Greg Frazier frazier-at-CS.UCLA.EDU !{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
From: richb-at-kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Date: 22 Feb 92 17:41:13 GMT
by
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
W. Smith <WMS108-at-psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> To avoid the high cost for small tube of sealer, I went to the local
>hardware store and bought a nice size tube of clear Plumber's Goop (brand).
>Well, I waited a WEEK before putting water in this baby and it still leaks!
Go back out to your hardware store or Sears or wherever and pick up a large
tube of silicone sealer. Locally, I'd expect to pay about US$4 for a
caulking-gun sized tube (about 12-oz). Get the kind which says aquarium-safe
on it. It will seal tightly to clean glass.
Or you could go to an aquarium shop and get a 4-oz tube for US$6. I prefer
buying the same stuff (made by Dow or GE) at home-improvement store prices.
-rich
From: CHUCK-at-PIERRE.MIT.EDU (Chuck Parsons)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1992 16:15:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Wood and Glass Tank Building Questions.
In article <73270006-at-col.hp.com>, you write...
>What should I use to seal the plywood. Do I need to use
>polyester resin or is there some form of polyurathane that
>will work?
Howard,
I've never built anything but plexiglas tanks. However, I've
had a little experience with canoes. Polyester is bad for things
constantly imersed because it is water permiable. You need to
use a two part epoxy.
Regards, Chuck
From: mleone-at-REYNARD.FOX.CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 16:44:10 EST
Subject: Re: Wood and Glass Tank Building Questions.
In article <73270006-at-col.hp.com> you write:
>I want to build a large tank from plywood and glass.
>It will have plywood bottom and back with glass front
>and maybe sides. Size=2'x 2'x (6'-8').
I'd be very interested in seeing a summary of the replies you get,
since I hope to build a similar tank someday. FAMA's _For What It's
Worth, Vol. 1_ has a few articles on plywood tank construction, and
it's only around $10. Volume 2 is probably available now.
>Pros and cons of such tanks.
Someone on the net recently said that you shouldn't keep a
plecostomous (sp?) in a plywood tank that's been sealed with enamel
instead of fiberglass or formica. Supposedly it will eat right
through the enamel to get at the wood. I have my doubts about this,
however.
Speculation: it may be more difficult to scrape algae off enameled
plywood, since it won't be very smooth.
>What should I use to seal the plywood. Do I need to use
>polyester resin or is there some form of polyurathane that
>will work?
Enamel is supposed to work well. Fiberglass is said to work, but
doesn't last more than a few years. I don't know about polyurethane.
I've heard on the net that you can use formica or some other lamination,
but I'm a little skeptical.
>General construction details (cost) ?
Use epoxy, not wood glue. Secure all joints with numerous screws.
>Sealing glass/?/wood seams?
Silicone will bond glass to enamel, but not glass to bare wood.
I don't know whether it will bond to fiberglass.
Good luck!
--
Mark Leone <mleone-at-cs.cmu.edu> "Don't just do something,
Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University sit there!"
Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA
by "James Purchase" <jpurch/interlog.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000
Dwight asked:
"I'm having a warm time removing silicone sealant from a cracked aquarium in
order to execute repairs. Anyone know of a chemical that removes the
stuff?"
Acetone - available in the automotive section of most well stocked
"superstores" (Canadian Tire in Canada).
James Purchase
Toronto
by "Douglas Bertelsen" <dcbertelsen/zxmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000
Dwight,
I encountered this problem when fixing a 42 gallon hex leaker (that I
still haven't used.) <g>
The best solution is a box of razor blades and a lot of elbow grease and
patience. It's easy to remove all but the smallest amounts of silicon from
scratches with a lot of even pressure. Use rubbing alcohol or other solvent
to prep the glass before recaulking. Good luck.
Doug Bertelsen
dcbertelsen@zxmail.com
________________________________________________________
1stUp.com - Free the Web
Get your free Internet access at http://www.1stUp.com
by IDMiamiBob/aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000
James Purchase writes:
> "I'm having a warm time removing silicone sealant from a cracked aquarium in
> order to execute repairs. Anyone know of a chemical that removes the
> stuff?"
>
> Acetone - available in the automotive section of most well stocked
> "superstores" (Canadian Tire in Canada).
Won't acetone dissolve the plastic frame as well? In fact I suspect it will
eat the frame faster than the silicone.
Bob Dixon
by Shireen Gonzaga <whimbrel/home.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001
Hi aquatic plant people,
well, you live and learn ....
a friend of mine sent me some really nice little spiral-
shaped diffusers. Unfortunately, some of them broke
during shipping. I tried to patch one of 'em up with
some aquarium silicon sealer, the kind that's used for
making glass aquariums.
The patched-up diffuser is attached to a homemade
yeast CO2 set-up. For about 3 weeks, everything worked
like a charm tho' I noticed that the spirals were getting
kinda cloudy. Then, this morning, I noticed that the
diffuser was not working. When I took it out of the tank,
I saw that it was clogged with a gooey translucent
substance that looked like the sealant.
Yippee! I've now learnt that silicon sealant breaks down
in the presence of the acidic CO2 water in the diffuser.
Can someone please suggest another type of aquarium-
safe glue that's acid-friendly that I can use to patch up
my other broken diffusers. (Unfortunately, there's so
much sealant coating the insides of my current diffuser
that it cannot be salvaged.)
thanks,
shireen
- --
Shireen Gonzaga
Baltimore, MD
whimbrel@home.com
by "James Purchase" <jppurchase/Home.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001
Shireen wrote:
"...Then, this morning, I noticed that the
diffuser was not working. When I took it out of the tank,
I saw that it was clogged with a gooey translucent
substance that looked like the sealant."
So you figure that if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and
quacks.......
I'm pretty certain that what you are seeing is NOT silicone being broken
down by CO2. The archives are full of questions from people who have
observed a phenomen similar to what you have seen. It is quite common for a
slimey, opague (whitish) growth of bacteria (???) to form either within the
tubing running from a yeast generated CO2 setup or at the point where it
exits into the tank. I have seen it myself countless times. I have never
seen anyone actually say what it was but apparently its harmless (if
unsighly and kind of disgusting) as I've never heard of it hurting anything.
I've even observed fish eating it without harmful effects. The best cure for
it is to just clean out the tubing, sterilize it and then start again with a
fresh batch of Yeast/Sugar/Water.
James Purchase
Toronto
by Brian Harmon <harmon/msg.ucsf.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001
Minor nitpick: silicon is the very abundant element that is in quartz,
glass, sand, microchips, etc. Silicone is that wonderful watertight
sealant that sticks nicely to glass.
The white stuff is not silicone. I've had the same reactor (the
top of a 12 oz water bottle with a silicone tube stuffed through the cap
and sealed with silicone) for over a year and the sealant is in no danger
of dissolving.
Good thing too, or the seals around my tank would be next.
I used to get this white precipitate gunk when I'd use an airstone
as a diffuser, this happened at about the same rate as the airstone slowly
disintegrated.
I stopped using an airstone diffuser altogether and I still get plenty
of CO2 to the plants without the gunk. The reactor still works by
holding a large bubble of CO2 under the water. I also have good
water flow and no aeration in the tank.
- - Brian Harmon
by Scott Hieber <shiebernet/netscape.net>
Date: 17 Jan 01
To: erik/thekrib.com
You might want to add this info to the adhesives discussion on your site.
It is a commercial product for removing cured silicone.
http://www.rmoreau.com/su100.htm
Uncured silicone can be cleaned up with mineral spirits, but this is advisable
only if you are wearing gloves and follow with an extremely thorough washing
to remove any residual mineral spirits. For aquaria, masking before "gluing"
is much better than using mineral spirits afterwards.
S. Hieber
S. Hieber
by "Tom Wood" <tomwood2/flash.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000
I visited the ge.com website and inquired about which product they recommend
as being safe for aquarium use. I received a couple of responses from two
different people within the company:
"Aquarium manufacturers have used RTV108 in fresh and saltwater aquariums up
to 20,000 gallons."
"The only product we recommend for aquariums is RTV108. I have attached a
data sheet for your review. We appreciate your interest in GE Silicones.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us
or visit our website at www.gesilicones.com."
Both messages contained huge disclaimers at the end.
RTV108 is available in caulkgun size tubes from Graingers (SKU 4UH12) for
$4.93 per tube.
FYI
Tom
The Krib
Tank Hardware
The Krib