Tank Size for Apistos
Contents:
- Tank Size??
by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com> (Thu, 5 Feb 1998)
- Tank Size??
by "Ed Pon" <edpon/hotmail.com> (Thu, 05 Feb 1998)
- Tank Size??
by Donald Nute <dnute/ai.uga.edu> (Fri, 6 Feb 1998)
- Fry Survival
by Lilia Stepanova <ls691035/bcm.tmc.edu> (Mon, 12 Oct 1998)
- Spawning in Tiny Tanks
by "Brown, Victoria: TMI" <Brown.Victoria/ic.gc.ca> (Thu, 5 Nov 1998)
- Collected Simple Questions
by IDMiamiBob/aol.com (Fri, 6 Nov 1998)
- new list member intro
by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Thu, 07 Jan 1999)
- spawning?
by "Mike Jacobs" <mjacobs2/tampabay.rr.com> (Sun, 10 Jan 1999)
by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
At 07:17 PM 2/5/98 -0500, Len/Geo wrote:
>Hi
>
>I planning to add more tanks to the one`s I have in the near furture. .
>I do have fairly limited space. I
>was thinking of using 10 gallon tanks for breeding Apisto. and
>Pelvicachromis instead of 15 gallon tanks. I don`t want to waste any
>space and use as many tanks I can in the area where I be setting up the
>tanks.
>I would like your opinion about using 10 gallon tank instead of 15
>gallon tank.
Hi George,
I would use 10's for a PAIR of breeding Apistos. Once you have fry though I
would suggest larger tanks. As for the Pelvicachromis, I would use the 15's.
I myself use 55 gallon community tanks. I find the Pelv. pulcher (Kribs) do
much better in a tank with a lot of other fish. I have 2 wild pairs. One
pair is in a 55 and the other is lucky enough to be in a 100 gal. community.
I get eggs all the time. It really depends on what you want to do and where
you are planning on putting your tanks.
Kaycy
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by "Ed Pon" <edpon/hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
>
>If you consider extra space for your tanks "wasting" it, you don't care
>for your fish like I care for mine. I am phasing out my fifteens in
>favor of twenties. You will have better luck with your fish in larger
>tanks too because, let's face it, it isn't luck. Try fewer, larger
>tanks and fewer kinds of fish of better quality with a better quality
of
>life. I know that's easy to say and hard to do but 10's are awful
>small.
>
I agree. I've decided not to try to keep everything, as tempting as it
is to do so. It's hard to keep up maintenance on multiple tanks. It's
actually a lot better to keep bigger tanks and under-stock the tanks.
When you keep an over-crowded tank, the "inmates" actually just being
kept alive on "life-support" systems. A power failure can prove
catastrophic.
I've bred apistos in 5 gallon tanks. The strategy when using these
tanks that is needed is to keep the tank full of java moss or something
else so the fish don't see each other all the time. Even well-paired
fish may occasionally have domestic discord, and if there is no place
for the sub-dominant fish to hide-out, they're as good as dead.
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by Donald Nute <dnute/ai.uga.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998
To: Apistogramma mailing List <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>
On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Len/Geo wrote:
> I would like your opinion about using 10 gallon tank instead of 15
> gallon tank.
I've bred P. pulcher (kribs,) P. ramirezi, A. cacatuoides, A. borelli,
A. caetei, and A. mcmasteri in 10 gallon tanks without any problems.
Right now, I am using a mixture of 10, 20, and 30 gallon tanks. I use
the 10s and 20s for breeding and the 30s as grow-out tanks or for larger
species. (I have a nice pair of festivum in a 30 that have spawned 8-9
times for me.) But I've had various apistos raise small numbers of fry to
near-adult size in 10s. All my tanks have gravel and live plants. If you
want to keep more species and you have time to take care of the tanks,
there's no reason why the 10s won't work for you.
Don
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Donald Nute
Professor and Head, Department of Philosophy (706) 542-2823
Director, Artificial Intelligence Center (706) 542-0358
The University of Georgia FAX (706) 542-2839
Athens, Georgia 30602, U.S.A http://ai.uga.edu/~dnute
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by Lilia Stepanova <ls691035/bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
I am raising now about 70 A.nijjseni + about 50 blue rams fry in
2/3-full 5g tank with RO water and no regular water changes. Sometimes I
syphon off building crap from the bottom and fill in more RO water.
Sofar, no promblems. Ram fry supposed to be more sensitive to everything,
but no deaths by now although it does look overcrowded. I feed them BBS. RO
water makes the trick?
Lilia
On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Mike & Diane Wise wrote:
> Gareth,
>
> After reading your letter, I can only scratch my head and wonder. I commonly
> breed and raise fry in tanks as small as 10 gallons. I recently raised a 75 fry
> of A. sp. Red-tail Rio Xingu in a 12 gallon (14 X 18") tank to 3/8" TL size
> without any problem. They got a 25% water change once a week, if they were lucky.
> I fed them 1 or 2X each day with live baby brine and powdered flakes. I kept the
> female with the fry but removed the male after he got tired of playing second
> fiddle to the fry by the female. In the past I had as much success with using
> commercial & frozen fry foods as I do with live foods - well, maybe they did grow
> slower. I rarely changed more than 25%, 1 each week. Obviously, you do something
> different or your water is really strange.
>
> My suggestions are not to over feed the fry. Cut your feedings to only 1/3 of
> what you feed now and feed them twice as often. Also check your tapwater for
> excess nitrates. Although nitrates don't usually bother adult fish, fry are much
> more sensitive to it. Many localities have a high level of nitrates in their tap
> water - not high enough to be dangerous to humans, but tough on fry. Changing
> water frequently with this kind of water won't help lower the polutants. You
> might also check your water for copper. It's best, if you have copper plumbing,
> to run the tap for a couple of minutes to flush the lines of any copper leached
> from them. Also check the pH of you tap water. If it's 1 pH unit higher than the
> tank's pH, and especially if the pH values straddle the neutral line (e.g. 6.5
> vs. 7.5), you might be getting rapid pH changes and accompanying ammonia spikes
> that are rough on fry. Just some thoughts. I guess not everyone is blest with
> water from reservoirs derived from snow melt from the Rocky Mountains like me.
> The water department actually raises the pH to prevent acid leaching of the water
> pipes. Still my water comes out of the tap at pH 7.5, < 2ºdGH, & <1ºdKH.
>
> Mike Wise
>
> Gareth Casey wrote:
>
> > This subject has most likely been beaten to death but I am having
> > problems raising my fry. At present I have 5 schools of fry.
> > 1 A. Resticulso-free swimming today
> > 1 A. Caucatoides-free swimming today
> > 3 A. Borelli- free swimming 3 days
> > I have killed off numerous batches of fry and I try something a little
> > different each time. This time I have gotten that egg-layer food mush
> > that you add to the tank. I mix into a small cup of water and then aim
> > it at the fry with an eyedropper. I also have used frozen BBS. I keep
> > well-aged sponges in the tanks and even use java moss and java ferns to
> > give them something to nibble on. So far all I have managed to raise are
> >
> > 2 A. Cauc. out of 6 -8 spawns of these fish. I normally do 10-15% water
> > changes daily altho I have tried 10% twice daily and also none at all.
> > When I feed them the food seems to go to the bottom, usually 2-3 drops
> > per school, unless it's a really big school. I leave mom and pop in the
> > tank and that doesn't seem to be a problem altho with the Borelli I have
> >
> > 3 females that all spawned at the same time in a 15G tank. The Cauc. are
> >
> > in a 20L and the Resticulosa are in a15G also. They are all in species
> > tanks with no dithers. will I be better off tryong to separate the fry
> > from the parents as I am tired of killing off the little guys. Should I
> > switch to microworms or some other type of FW live food that I can
> > maintain in the tank ?? I feed the adults heavily on black worms and
> > they all are doing great but Iam really disgusted with myself for not
> > getting right yet even tho I read all I can and try to apply as much as
> > possible. I haven't hatched my own BS yet and that is next on my list of
> >
> > things to do. I read about feeding them de-encapsulated eggs also,
> > opinions on that ?? Will someone plz help.
> > Sorry for the long post but I am really getting fustrated as the same is
> >
> > happening to my Angels and my Cory Cats that I manage to spawn. :(
> >
> > TIA
> > Gareth Casey
> >
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>
>
>
>
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by "Brown, Victoria: TMI" <Brown.Victoria/ic.gc.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998
To: apisto-digest/majordomo.pobox.com
Doug Brown, asks in apisto #211,,
>5) Any hints on spawning apistos specifically >in 10G and smaller tanks? I
seem to have no >problems with even my most difficult apistos >once I move
them to 29G or 55G but I have >had zero spawns in my 10's or 5 and
>amtherefore hesitant to consider stocking a >fish room with them!
Hi Folks,, Hi Doug,,
I have been spawning Apistos in 5 gallon tanks for almost 1 year now. I
find it works great. I have a male triple red Cacatuoides who has lived in
a 5 gallon tank now, for 6 months or so. He as a little plastic plant, some
java moss, and a Tronic heater, and a Accuclear Mini filter. He has 2
enclosed, flat floor, semicircular, flower pots in his tank also. I bring
him one female at a time, they start to court,, and about 1 week later, she
is sitting in a pot filled with eggs. Once the eggs are hatched, I take
flower pot out, with the mom and fry in it. I then put the pot into a 3 1/2
gallon tank, with a corner air driven filter. Mom then comes out and looks
at her new surroundings, and then tends her brood. The fry then go
freeswimming, and I start feeing brine.
I usually bring the male another female, right away, and the courting starts
again. Right now I have 3 mother's tending fry, in 3 1/2 gallon tanks. And
the male is courting his guts out with the female I gave him yesterday.
So far, I have spawned Cacatuoides, Agassizzi, Norberti, Bitaeniata,
Hongsloi, Borelli, and Pleurotaenia's this way. Only trick is you gotta do
40% water changes every third day on these tiny tanks, to keep the water
quality up. No probs though, takes about 3 minutes per tank to do, with a
python. 3 1/2 gallon tanks are great for mom's and fry, cos the shrimps get
to the little guys. I usually leave the females with their spawn, for about
1 month or so, then back to the male one by one they go!!
Worx for me,, hehe, I have so many Apistos right now, I can't even get rid
of them!! I have Apistos in all my community tanks now, living with guppies,
swords, plaites, etc.etc. Apistos coming out of my ears, right now!!
Vicky and her fishy circus
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by IDMiamiBob/aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
> 5) Any hints on spawning apistos specifically in 10G and smaller tanks? I
> seem to have no problems with even my most difficult apistos once I move
> them to 29G or 55G but I have had zero spawns in my 10's or 5 and am
> therefore hesitant to consider stocking a fish room with them!
I have spawned several species in tens. I always had luck with 15W
flourescent strip lights, slow UGFs under fine store gravel and lots of
watersprite, both planted and floating. The more aggressive species, like A
panduro, were harder to get to cooperate, and needed lots of "cave"
selections. Pairs only, and match the pH and conductivity requirements for
the species, and skip the dither fish thing. On the other hand, I've had
gentler species, like A. bitaeniata, split up the available ground in a 30
seven ways. They raised their fry for a few days of free-swimming before I
would siphon the herd. If they can go that that many pairs in a 30 gallon,
then one pair per 10 shouldn't be a problem.
Bob Dixon
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by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
joel metz, ifbma wrote:
> just a quick intro... (ok maybe not as brief as it could be...)
>
> ive also got that 20gal tank empty, waiting in the wings, and an
> empty 10gal as well
> -joel
>
Joel,
Welcome. May I make one suggestion. Save the 10 gallon tank and use it only for a
quarantine tank. This is the best insurance investment anyone can make. A small
bare quarantine tank with just a sponge filter, heater, and some PVC pipe for
hiding places will save you lots of money in the long run. Better to medicate a
small tank with a few sick fish than having to do the same to a larger one.
best wishes,Mike Wise
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by "Mike Jacobs" <mjacobs2/tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999
To: <apisto/admin.listbox.com>
Folks, I am really glad this thread of spawning behavior has held up and the
"flames" of hell have been avoided. This is the kind of discussion that we
should feel free to have.....a discussion of experiences. The last time
this topic was tried....well!
Can I get in here a bit. Most of you know which side I'm on here...doesn't
make me right, just my experiences...I don't believe we have created angels
and other fish that won't raise their fry or apisto's that won't raise their
fry. I don't think we can undo 10000000000000 years of natural selection
and habits in 3-4-5 generations of in breeding. The question is, I think,
do we know REALLY what these little buggers are like in the wild? Oh we
have guesses, there is undoubtedly a great deal of parental care but really
how much??? I've talked at length with 5 people personally, and at length,
who have been to ALL parts of the Amazon basin collecting apisto and etc.
and not a one of those guys ever saw a female or a FEMALE AND MALE with a
bunch of young (I didn't say it doesn't happen). I know that there are good
times to go collecting ....the rainy season and all of that...but I think
there are too many unanswered questions to assume we know all of the answers
about apisto parental behavior because we watched them in an
aquarium......we can only talk of our experiences......not talk about who is
WRONG! Maybe none of us are WRONG or entirely right...including me (I can
only talk of my experiences) but to generalize my experience as the only
fact there must be is a bit out of line I think.
One thing for sure however...when they find these apistos generally they
find a bunch of them in the leaf litter evidently. It's been described to
me as "...in one SQUARE foot of leave litter there may be 40-50 apistos.
Thus you have heard the famous story of David Soares' tank of apistos...a 55
gallon with some 150-175 cacatuoides in there...it's true, and I would dare
say that not a whole bunch of us have tried to sit and watch the dynamics of
a tank like that! So I took a part of that thinking and put it to this
.......small, but effective so far.... experiment. Vinny Kutty gave me
about 30-40 pair of VERY YOUNG wild (F0) A. agassizii he had caught and
brought back......emphasis F0's (this was my opportunity). I took most of
them to our club and auctioned them off as I was directed but I ended up
"cherry" picking about 5-6 males and about 8-9 females and the ALL ended up
in a 20 gallon long...a 20 gall long (crowded tank) with enough PVC tubes
and PVC couplings to choke a horse (hiding places...all fish were
reasonably comfortable...tension but comfortable). That tank is probably
the most interesting tank I have to simply sit and watch the interaction.
But when the sizes got a little larger (you couldn't sex them when Vinny
first brought them...they were really young) and their first spawnings
began, all kinds of things happened. Some spawns were good, some spawns
were eaten some spawns just never hatched some spawns ended up with 2-3
young that eventually became mature and some hatches the female was good
enough to actually get 20-25 of those young to 5-6 weeks until I pulled
them. All of this spawning behavior happened at the same time in the SAME
water conditions. Water quality CERTAINLY has a lot to do with trying to
spawn these nifty apistos, and we must strive to get the best water quality
we can to these fish to even try to observe "normal" behavior but let's
don't be too sure we know all of the other action or reactions of these
fish...behaviors. ONLY through giving our experiences and LISTENING and
INTERACTING to others experiences will we eventually really learn someday
the real trick....OK Flame away, tell me again I am wrong.
I'm sorry I got so wound up, but these types of conversations should be able
to happen without fear of someone telling someone else they are wrong...it
tend to stifle a conversation.
Hey.........everyone have a great day. And by the way...at the next ACA
convention, lets have a "FOR REAL APISTO DISCUSSION". I know a bunch of you
were their but I only recognized and met Bob Dixon and Julio Melgar. Even
if we only just meet informally somewhere..........what do you think!
Mike
Mike Jacobs
Center for Advanced Technologies
Lakewood H.S.
St Pete, Fl 33705
mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
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The Krib
Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids
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