The Krib Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids	[E-mail]

Apistogramma nijsseni

by Ken Laidlaw <kl-at-jach.hawaii.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids

Andrew O'Farrell wrote:
> Hi Andrew,

i have kept and bred A.nijsseni in the past.  To me it is the most beatiful of all the 
apistos.

Here a brief run-down of what I did.

They were kept in a small 16x8x8" aquarium decorated with small gravel, bog wood, java moss 
and most impotantly small clay saucers (plant pot stands).  These had a small notch broken 
out of the rom and placed upside down on the gravel.  
Hiding places are essential as the male will often harass the female.

My water was soft with pH of 6.5, I don't know how importabt this is but soft is probably 
best.

Feed the fish on frozen bloodworms etc, mine would no eat flake at all.

As the female ripens you will notice that she starts to court the male by swimming up to 
hime and flicking her tail. She may often turn her belly towards him.

She will have selected a cave by this point and this is where the eggs are laid, upside down 
in the cave.  Once the eggs are laid I only ever had success if I removed the male.  You 
will know that spawning has taken place if you see the female she will be thin.  You may not 
see her however as sometimes she can build a blockage in front of the entrance to the cave 
and hide there until the fry are swimming.  Don't be tempted to have a look, this is lead to 
the female eating the eggs.

The fry can be fed on BS nauplii but they also grase off the bog wood, gravel & moss.  I 
left the fry with the female for one month.

This is a beautiful fish, hope you have success.

ken.L
ps may I ask how much you paid for them, my first pair cost me 20pounds UK money, about $30 
US.


> Hi.  I just purchased a pair of Apistogramma nijsseni.  I would like to
> hear from anyone who has had experience with these fish.  I'm interested
> in first-hand accounts, in addition to the information I've found in
> various dwarf cichlid books, about general care, problems and breeding.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andrew O'Farrell        <a_ofarr-at-alcor.concordia.ca>
> Montreal, Quebec
> 
> "Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard,
>  grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em."            -Webb Wilder
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Corys & Apistos

by mengerin/cs.utexas.edu
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997
To: petej/wordsanddeeds.com

> >I've read apisto's and cory's are a volatile mix -with the cory's ending
> >up floating. I've been too concerned by this to actually try. First hand
> >experience anyone?.
> 
> I keep dwarf corys with A. agazzizi and A. gibbiceps without incident. 
> I've also heard someone warn about this -- along with Otocinclus sp. -- 
> but my experience so far does not support the warning. Some of the 
> nastier Apistos such as nijsseni and pandurini might be a problem.

I don't know why you've considered njisseni nasty.  I've got several wild
caught pairs of these fish in with BIVs, E. sexfasciatus, cardinal tetras,
otocinclus, and D. filementosus.  I've only seen aggression directed at
other njisseni and never anything vicious at the other fish.

				Cheers,
				Matthew

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nijsseni

by Erik Olson (e-mail)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997
To: mengerin/cs.utexas.edu

On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 mengerin-at-cs.utexas.edu wrote:
> 
> Well, the only premise I'm challenging is the one that the exception is
> that they are peaceful.  I would like more input from others who keep
> njisseni.  I've got wild caught pairs and like I said, in a variety of
> environments from a 10g toa 55g tank I've seen little to no aggression
> with other species.  

We have a trio of nijsseni.  Right now, each is in its own tank because of
their agressive nature.  First, we kept them all in a 20long with lots of
bogwood and pots to hide in.  The male beat up the sub-dominant female so
often we could never see her, so out she went.  He continued to beat up on
the dominant female on a regular basis until they spawned.  At this point,
the female near took his head off, and we had to move him out.  That's
about the worst I've seen in Apistogramma so far. :)

  - Erik

---
Erik D. Olson					         amazingly, at home
(e-mail)


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njisseni aggro

by Elson/Frauley <fraulels/minet.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997
To: "apisto/aquaria.net" <apisto/aquaria.net>

Hi all,
	I've been following this thread with interest, and a question has occurred to 
me. Personally, I've found njisseni and pandurini (especially the latter) to be pretty 
rowdy in relation to most other apistos. The exception is cacatuoides, who have 
surprised me a few times. I have juruensis, but only males, from the cacatuoides 
complex, and I have no patterns to report there. But is it the cacatuoides complex we're 
touching on here, or just the njisseni/pandurini corner of it?
	Certainly, other than occasional nastiness from geisleri, the apistos I've kept 
from other complexes have been pretty relaxed characters in comparison with the 
cactuoides/njisseni group. I've had peaceful, and rough njisseni, timid and perfectly 
brazen pandurini, so even within species, there's variation among individual fish. 
Still, it borders on a pattern for me. Any comments out there?
	Gary (Mtl)

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njisseni aggro

by mengerin/cs.utexas.edu
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997
To: fraulels/minet.ca

>  I've had peaceful, and rough njisseni, timid and perfectly brazen
>  pandurini, so even within species, there's variation among individual
>  fish.  Still, it borders on a pattern for me. Any comments out there?

Well, with 3 seperate pairs of wild caughts with mixed sources, I'm really
thinking that there might be something to the environment/parameters that
people are keeping there fish in, rather than a common behavior.

As to your comparison of species, the A. njisseni are described as being of
the macmasteri complex and for certain the A. macmasteri that I have are
extremely timid.

The most aggression that I've viewed in apistos is with A. standachneri
and that too was largely associated with other apistos that were in the
same tank (A. viejita).  

				Cheers,
				Matthew

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nijsseni

by wrisch/mendel.berkeley.edu (lisa wrischnik)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997
To: apisto/aquaria.net

Hi all,

Matthew says:

>Well, the only premise I'm challenging is the one that the exception is
>that they are peaceful.  I would like more input from others who keep
>njisseni.  I've got wild caught pairs and like I said, in a variety of
>environments from a 10g toa 55g tank I've seen little to no aggression
>with other species.
>
I had a single female in a 40 gal community tank, and then I added 2
large pairs of adult nijsseni.  I went out of town for 3 days, and
when I came back my "old" female was dead.  The nijsseni didn't bother
any of the other fish until two paired up and spawned, and then they
terrorized the other pair so badly that I had to move them out
within 2 days (the subdominant male's fins were shredded).

In addition, all the other inhabitants of the tank (6 D. filamentosus,
5 Biotodoma wavrini, 6 splashing tetras, some pencil fish and 3 panda
corys) were confined to one end, in about 1/4 of the tank volume. (Moved
those filamentosus pronto,too!). Funny thing is, I noticed that my
nijsseni really hated those corys (had them pinned on top of a piece of
driftwood at the top of the tank), and I was thinkning that maybe it was
the large spot on their sides - rather reminiscent of the large nijsseni
spot-that made them seem more threatening. Who knows.


>Without exception, my absolute favorite apistogramma.

I love the whole complex the best - my pandurini are really fun.

A little off topic....I think it was Gary asking about N. taenia?
Well, I finally moved mine from a 10 with some cardinals into a
20 gal with my A. piauiensis, and they
are no longer acting very shy. The little guys are busy chasing each other
all over the place, though they do dart into plants/pots if I move too
fast around the tank. Guess the cardinal tetras were just not interesting
enough dithers to get them out & about (or the tank size was confining).
They are pretty cranky around one another, too, but no damage yet.

Lisa



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njisseni aggro (fwd)

by Kathryn Knudsen <kk691111/bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997
To: apisto/aquaria.net

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 07:00:57 -0800
From: SanfordD-at-liberty.issaquah.wednet.edu
To: kk691111-at-bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: Re: njisseni aggro

Hi,  my nijsseni female keeps the male away from the fry, but she
is always beating up the white cloud dithers in spite of the fact 
that they stay up at the surface.    My pandurini male was very
aggressive at first, enough that i was very conserned about the female
but when i put 3 young cacatuoides in as dithers he went after them
and kept them up at the surface (which they were very unhappy about)

Kathy, i can't sent mail to outside addresses at the moment, but
it seems that i can reply so if you want to forward this snippet to
the group i woun't be totally incommunicado.
                                            dave



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njisseni aggro

by mengerin/cs.utexas.edu
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997
To: kk691111/bcm.tmc.edu

>> Matthew says:
>>>
>>>As to your comparison of species, the A. njisseni are described as being of
>>>the macmasteri complex and for certain the A. macmasteri that I have are
>>>extremely timid.

Kathy writes:

> I am not aware of any literature that places them in the macmasteri group 
> but perhaps this is an earlier classification than the 1980-present 
> literature that I have seen.

Bad Matthew bad.  Yes, I put misinformation out there.  I humbly retract
the part about the macmasteri complex.

I reread Linke & Staeck's book talking about complexes & A. njisseni.  They
say that the njisseni are close to the cacatuoides group, but not really
a part of it.  

I was confused due to a reference in the section specifically about the
njisseni which puts A. macmasteri down as one of the closest in similarity
to the njisseni.

A bit confusing.

				My apologies,
				Matthew

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nijsseni

by raychah/auburn.campus.mci.net (Charles H. Ray, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997
To: Erik Olson (e-mail)

>On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 mengerin-at-cs.utexas.edu wrote:
>>
>> Well, the only premise I'm challenging is the one that the exception is
>> that they are peaceful.  I would like more input from others who keep
>> njisseni.  I've got wild caught pairs and like I said, in a variety of
>> environments from a 10g toa 55g tank I've seen little to no aggression
>> with other species.
>
>We have a trio of nijsseni.  Right now, each is in its own tank because of
>their agressive nature.  First, we kept them all in a 20long with lots of
>bogwood and pots to hide in.  The male beat up the sub-dominant female so
>often we could never see her, so out she went.  He continued to beat up on
>the dominant female on a regular basis until they spawned.  At this point,
>the female near took his head off, and we had to move him out.  That's
>about the worst I've seen in Apistogramma so far. :)
>
>  - Erik
>
>---
>Erik D. Olson                                            amazingly, at home
>(e-mail)
>
I can echo Erik's experience.  The male beat up on the female, they
spawned, female ate eggs, and proceeded to kill male.  A friend in Atlanta
had pandurini, during lip locking, male tore off lips of female who starved
to death.  These are amazingly aggressive apistos.  I have trio of
pandurini which seems to work fairly well, male takes off after one female,
other rushes to front and grabs food.  Male returns, takes after second
female allowing first to rush to front to feed.  Norberti are similar, male
doesn't seem to want to tolerate female, I introduced glass plate to
separate, unfortunately fish have discovered small gap and male ends up
with female about half the time.  Tough fish to figure.




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Apisto. Nijsseni?

by "Richard J. Sexton" <fish/vrx.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996
To: apisto/aquaria.net

At 04:40 PM 11/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I found some Apisto Nijsseni in one of the local fish stores about 3

>Is this a version of Nijsseni, or is this some new species that is
>closely related?


Ron Harlan collected near Iquitos in 88/89 and brought back
agassizi and nijsseni. He also borught be what we joking
referred to as "harlani"; they looked like nijsseni, but not quit
the same. Last I heard, they were deemed to be a different
populaiton of nijsseni.

You'd have to call Ron to find out more, I'm fuzzy on the
details; given howeevr how many different color variations
there are on agassizi and cacatuoides, it seems resonable
there might be different populaitons of nijsseni.


--
Richard J. Sexton                               Bannockburn killifish ranch
richard-at-aquaria.net   

Apisto aggression

by Tom Mroz <tmroz/art-inc.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997
To: "'apisto/aquaria.net'" <apisto/aquaria.net>

Pete Johnson wrote:

>Regardless of the exceptions, I think nijsenni are among the most
>aggressive of the Apistos. I'm intrigued that they appear extroverted --
>they don't stay in hiding, as do most of their genus. The other end of
>the spectrum is A. norberti, which in my experience hide all the time.

I just had*** A. nijsseni and A. norberti in nearby tanks (pairs in each 
tank, 10 gallons each), and I found different behavior.  The nijsseni did 
not even notice the neon dithers in the tank, and while the stray Betta 
imbelis cohabitating there was not seen often, I never saw her chased 
around the tank.  The nijjseni themselves wrestled a bit with each other, 
and changed dominance about every 5 days.  First, they were male dominant, 
then female (I thought this would be the start of spawning, but it was 
not), then male, then female again - spawning this time.  I never saw any 
evidence of fin damage, but the aggression was enough to send the lesser of 
the two into the plants for a day or two.   I don't know the source of the 
nijjseni, but they were store bought, so the chance for wild caught is low, 
right?  And for clarity, these WERE nijjseni, not pandurini, which I get 
from another local store (of course, mislabelled as nijjseni).

Similarly, the norberti I have had for about a month like to tussle quite a 
bit.  This has, so far, been male dominated exclusively.  This was a 
surprise to me, as the male was a bit beaten (last in the tank) and the 
female was in good shape when I first bought them.  He got better quite 
quickly, and now rules the roost.

I don't disaggree that nijjseni are more aggressive than most apistos, but 
I have not seen the "terminator" behavior some of you have discussed.

 I like to think of hiding places as distinguished between two types; 
"real" hiding places - where the truley afflicted go to completely avoid 
the aggressor (and typically die due to stress or wounds if you don't 
eventually separate them) and the "hide in plain site" hiding places. 
 These are where the afflicted wants a little cover, so as not to seem like 
such an obvious target, but yet wants to know what's going on, as well as 
"test the waters" to see when the mood has swung back to something a little 
more tolerable.  The later situation is perfectly safe and healthy, the 
former, of course, is the first step towards the lonely heart club.

This is definitely the way both these species have acted for me.  The 
afflicted nijjseni would typically find a spot high up in some bunch plants 
back about 2/3 of the way in the tank, and keep an eye out for an 
opportunity to interact peacefully with the other.  At feeding time, the 
afflicted would come out and gingerly root around, typically being chased 
back by the other when he/she became too obvious.

The norberti are the same way, though the female does not even hide so 
carefully.  She typically keeps something between her and the male, but 
otherwise tries her best to live out a normal life.  Interestingly, if the 
male comes straight at her, she will flee.  If he comes from a direction 
where she is not initially aware of him, she will get pinned down and WILL 
NOT flee.  Under these rare conditions, he typically stops short, turns 
broadside, and "flares" for display.  He'll then turn back around, at which 
point she typically takes off and he follows - looks like he is chasing 
her, but is it pursuit instead?

One thing I have "found" recently (I think many of you out there will scoff 
that you "found" this years ago) was that my apistos show much more lively 
behavior when I use a thin (1/4 - 1/2") gravel bed in the tank, rather than 
my typical bare-bottom.  I decorate the tank with pots, caves, plants the 
same way, but that brown gravel seems to take the shyness away.  I see all 
of my apistos regularly - I could'nt say that 6 months ago.  When I first 
purchased the norberti, I put them into a 15 gallon bare-bottom tank with a 
bunch of Betta edithae while I set-up their 10 gallon.  They were there 
about 1 1/2 weeks, and they were as shy as could be.  I did'nt see them at 
all the first 2 days, and the only cover was a sponge filter and a few 
shards of pot no bigger than the fish themselves. Within a day of 
introducing them to their current home, complete with gravel (yes, and with 
the same B. edithae), they took over and now can be seen at all times.  I 
have gradually shifted all my tanks over to gravel bottoms for my dwarfs. 
 My only concern is if these tanks will be harder to maintain in the long 
term.

*** I say had, because I have problems keeping Nijsseni alive.  As with my 
usual luck, this pair lived about 3 weeks, spawned once, turned around and 
died with little outward sign of problem.  The female had come with a bad 
spot on her head, but it had not gotten to critical stage yet.  The 
remaining Nijsseni at the store I bought them from are vibrant and alive - 
living in tap water yet!  Meanwhile, my pandurini live and love, in soft 
water, tap water, whatever.  But that's another string altogether.



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aggression

by Tom Mroz <tmroz/art-inc.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997
To: "'apisto/aquaria.net'" <apisto/aquaria.net>

Erik D. Olson wrote:
>We have a trio of nijsseni.  Right now, each is in its own tank because of
>their agressive nature.  First, we kept them all in a 20long with lots of
>bogwood and pots to hide in.
>
>Charles Ray wrote:

>I can echo Erik's experience.  The male beat up on the female, they
>spawned, female ate eggs, and proceeded to kill male.  A friend in 
>Atlanta had pandurini, during lip locking, male tore off lips of female 
who >starved to death.  These are amazingly aggressive apistos.

We have seen quite a few messages in the past several days regarding this 
subject, and observances on nijsseni, in particular, range from peaceful to 
"pirhana".  It would be interesting to try to correlate behavior with 
environmental influences, or other factors, such as source of fish (wild 
vs. domestic bred).  Personnaly, I have never seen aggression in nijsseni, 
to the extent of torn fins, anyways.  I have always kept them in a 10-12 
gallon tank, by themselves (cichlid-wise), and with some sort of small 
tetra dither fish (4-8 neons or glowlights for instance).  I have kept them 
under various water conditions ranging from very soft and acid to tap water 
(160 ppm, ~7.8 pH) in my attempts to keep them alive more than a few weeks 
(my problems are from overall mortality).  They look and act good for a few 
weeks, and even often spawn.  They push each other around, but never to the 
extent that I feel they need to be separated.

Seems a number of people reporting problems have their nijsseni in larger 
tanks.  Is that a factor?

Tom



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A.nijsseni spawn

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Lilia,

Koslowski, in his book, Die Buntbarsche der Neuen Weld - Zwergcichliden, wrote that
this isn't an unusual occurrence with A. nijsseni.  He even shows a photo of a male
in female brood dress.  This was 15 years ago!

Koslowski wrote (my translation): "Males of A. nijsseni even actively engage in
taking care of the brood.  Even during the egg and larval stages my male would
continually be checking out the spawning cave that the female guarded, however she
never let him enter.  Immediately after the brood became freeswimming their father
started leading the fry.  On his back, head, and breast areas the blue body sheen
was replaced by a yellow tint.  A cheek stripe, flank patch, and tail spot was
often visible.  Now the male resembled the female in color pattern, however not
attaining her's in his unusual dress."

Your male seems to be even more parental than the one discussed by Koslowski since
it took over the females job from the start.  Being bigger, he will usually get his
way.  I've seen this occur in A. steindachneri and A. sp. aff. caetei (Rotwangen),
but these aren't highly polygamous species.  'Different strokes for different
folks', I guess.

On a related note, it's too bad that Koslowski's book wasn't more widely
distributed in the (English language) hobby.  In my opinion it's STILL the best
book for identifying the various species of dwarf cichlids.  That's saying
something considering its nearly 15 years old!  If anyone out there has a copy they
want to get rid of let me know.  I have several European hobbyist friends who would
give their left arm for it!.

Mike Wise


> Do males ever participate in fry rising? The whole patter of behavior is
> very different in this tank, but - here are eggs and they are well cared
> for so far!
>
> Lilia
>
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A.nijsseni

by <kathy/thekrib.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

> I have a wild njisseni pair now, guarding wrigglers. Everything (head
> shape, finnage, overall patterning) says njisseni but there's no
> greenish side blotch on the female. In the past, my captive-bred
> njisseni females always had that.


Gary,

I always get one female nijsseni or two without a side blotch in my
batches of fry.  Some of the fry end up with two blotches.  Mostly it is
only on one side, once both.  I think it is a genetic variant. 

Kathy 


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A.nijsseni

by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Darren J. Hanson wrote:
> 
> > My question is has anyone seen a female nijsseni before
> > with simialr markings.  There was another female in the
> > tank with markings the same.
> Ken, do you know that the LFS you bought them from know the difference
> in dwarf cichlids? Are you sure they are actually nijsseni females? I
> have had them in the past and none of them had the stripe. They all had
> the large blotch.
> 
> JMO
> 
> Kaycy

Hi all,
There are weird things in njisseni-land these days. I know I had a
posting a few years ago on the list about 'Gary's weird pandurini', so I
may get a bad rep for questioning what I have here without being able to
provide photos, but it's interesting.
I have a wild njisseni pair now, guarding wrigglers. Everything (head
shape, finnage, overall patterning) says njisseni but there's no
greenish side blotch on the female. In the past, my captive-bred
njisseni females always had that.
They came from a Peruvian shipment that was 2/3 panduro, some of which
were oddly coloured in their own right. 
There are a huge number of colour gradations in these fish. I don't know
if the variations are individual or population based, mixed in the wild
or thrown together at the exporters, or (and I like this idea...) maybe
the collectors are ranging farther in the hunt for these fish, and
trying new habitats. It's all speculation, but it's confusing and darned
fun to look at.
It might be interesting if, when we're lucky enough to see wild
shipments, we could report to the list on what we're seeing in terms of
variation within this relatively recently discovered complex.
-Gary


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New (to me) dwarfs

by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998
To: "INTERNET:apisto/majordomo.pobox.com" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

Mike,

I can only speak of the A. nijsseni "Requena". The type locality for A.
nijsseni is about 14 km east of Genaro Herrera, which lies on east bank of
the Rio Ucayali.  Requena is only a few km south of Genaro Herrera, also on
the east bank. I have seen fish from both localities side by side and could
not see any differences. Based on the proximity of the two localities, I'll
have to say that they are one and the same population.

>A. sp. aff. nijsseni (Requena) - Requena, Peru is on the Rio Ucayali,
>not the Rio Yavarí where A. nijsseni comes from.

The type locality is actually closer to the Rio Ucayali (+/- 20km) than to
the Rio Yavari (+/- 80 km).

Both, the A. nijsseni "Requena" and the A. sp. "Diamant" are being imported
from Germany. I couldn't get any good info on the "Diamant" other than it
being a heavy bodied species.

Julio


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nijsenni

by FRANCINEBETHEA/mailexcite.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998
To: erik/thekrib.com

Hello,
My name is Francine and I have recently become an avid fan of Apistogrammas
and killifish.  The Krib is great. I justed started in October with a 30gal
for my cacautoides and nijsenni, brown pleco, zebra pleco, 3 otocats, 3
ghost shrimp, and 3 epiplatys chaperi.  The tank is heavly planted at 78
degrees and the ph is 6.5.  The nijsenni have spawned and I have at least 20
fry.  I also have two 20gal tanks with curviceps and white cloud minnows,
otocats with ghost shrimp.

There are some problems I am having and I was wondering if you could help.
My first question is, how do you pronounce NIJSENNI?  MY nijsenni spawned
and I removed all fish from 30 gal except the brown pleco, the zebra pleco,
and the ottocats and shrimp.  Since there are fry in the tank, will I still
be able to do my weekly partial water change?  How am I to siphon the debris
from the bottom of the tank?  The nijsenni is a good mother and occasinally
puts the fry in her mouth and releases it into the group.  She also picks up
mouthfuls of the BBS and spreads it over the fry.  Her behavoir is fantastic
and I'd really hate to interfer by doing maintenance on the plants and tank.
Will my fiddling with the tank do that to her?




_______________________________________________________
Get your free, private e-mail at http://mail.excite.com/

R: check the photo and ID please

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

kathy@thekrib.com wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Frauley/Elson wrote:
>
> > The mouth seems sharper than a big lipped, solid-jawed njisseni. The
> > caudal blotch is also panduro-like (I have to disagree with Kathy
> > there). The lack of black on the throat isn't a consistent indicator due
> > to the variety within this species.
>
> Gary,
> I agree with you on the large caudal blothc/streak on the tail in panduro,
> but I have only seen this on panduro male's.  I haven't seen this on a
> female...has anyone else.

Kathy,

I have, on 2 fully mature females. They were wild caught and I thought I had
picked a pair because the smaller one always showed a caudal patch. The other
would display her patch depending on how she felt. I kept waiting for the "male"
to develop more blue on the flanks and more elongated ventral fins but it never
did.

Mike Wise

>  Now, in one of my spawing trio's of nijsseni,
> there is one female, who when stressed gets a caudal blotch/streak like
> the one on Simone's photo.  If she does it again I will get a photo, right
> now she is in spawning coloration again.  :)
>
> Kathy
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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A nijsseni

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Susanne,

I base this on what Schmettkamp wrote in his book:

"A. nijsseni (pronounced neisseni) is a name used to honor Dr. Han Nijssen,
Curator of the Zoological Museum of Amsterdam who allowed Kullander to examine
the fish caught by Patrick de Rham."

In German, in any word containing double vowels it is the second vowel that is
pronounced, and as a long vowel - in this case a long "i". The "ss" in Dutch (ß
in German) is pronounced "z". So contrary to what  most apistonuts say, it is
pronounce nye-ZEN-eye (or in classical Latin nye-ZEN-ee).

If I'm wrong would one of our Dutch members correct me please? What do you say
Erik Jan & Hans?

Mike Wise

Susanne and Cory Williamson wrote:

> Three questions for anyone who might know
>
> What is the phonetic pronunciation of this species?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cory Williamson
>
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Sex ratios of nijsseni based on pH

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

--------------7E146327AE5F362655170268
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Cory,

The only major effect that pH has on breeding A. nijsseni is the number
of viable eggs (= potential # of fry) you'll get. Temperature affects
sex ratio. Please refer to my reply to Doug Dunlop's 03 Feb 1999
message, "nijsseni temperature", for specific results of temperature/pH
values on this species. These results of Römer's are are based on a
large number of nijsseni spawns:

pH 4.5/23º - 14 spawns, pH 4.5/26º - 20 spawns, pH 4.5/29º - 12 spawns
pH 5.5/23º - 12 spawns, pH 5.5/26º - 24 spawns, pH 5.5/29º - 18 spawns
pH 6.5/23º - 13 spawns, pH 5.5/26º - 24 spawns, pH 6.5/29º - 16 spawns

I'd say this is statistically very definitive. Any reports to the
contrary seem to be anecdotal by comparison.

Mike Wise

Cory and Susanne Williamson wrote:

>  I have read conflicting information regarding the sex ratios of A.
> nijsseni produced at varied pH levels- can anyone tell me what the
> effect of pH on the sex ratio actually is. Cory

--------------7E146327AE5F362655170268
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFF0">
Cory,
<p>The only major effect that pH has on breeding A. nijsseni is the number
of viable eggs (= potential # of fry) you'll get. Temperature affects sex
ratio. Please refer to my reply to Doug Dunlop's 03 Feb 1999 message, "nijsseni
temperature", for specific results of temperature/pH values on this species.
These results of R&ouml;mer's are are based on a large number of nijsseni
spawns:
<p>pH 4.5/23&ordm; - 14 spawns, pH 4.5/26&ordm; - 20 spawns, pH 4.5/29&ordm;
- 12 spawns
<br>pH 5.5/23&ordm; - 12 spawns, pH 5.5/26&ordm; - 24 spawns, pH 5.5/29&ordm;
- 18 spawns
<br>pH 6.5/23&ordm; - 13 spawns, pH 5.5/26&ordm; - 24 spawns, pH 6.5/29&ordm;
- 16 spawns
<p>I'd say this is statistically very definitive. Any reports to the contrary
seem to be anecdotal by comparison.
<p>Mike Wise
<p>Cory and Susanne Williamson wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I have
read conflicting information regarding the sex ratios of A. nijsseni produced
at varied pH levels- can anyone tell me what the effect of pH on the sex
ratio actually is.</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Cory</font></font></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

--------------7E146327AE5F362655170268--

Nijsseni double spot

by Kathy Olson <kathy/thekrib.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999
To: Apistogramma <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

George,
I was wondering if we can get a predominantly double spot strain.  I am
sure there will be some throwbacks.  Depending on the ratios in the fry we
can determine if it is dominant or recessive.  I suspect recessive from
what I have seen so far.  Of course that is if color is only one gene
which it likely is not.

So, I have a pair of double spot, siblings.  If I can figure a empty tank
I will try it.

Kathy


On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Geo/Len wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi Kathy
> 
> What do you think will happen if I breed the female with the double spot . Fry`s with
> double spot???
> 
> George
> 
> >
> >
> > Nothing special, except just a different color morph.  Interesting though,
> > maybe pandurini was started by an isolated population of nijsseni.  Who
> > knows (probably Uwe :)  )
> >
> > Kathy
> >
> > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Geo/Len wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Kathy
> > >
> > > It there some thing special about a  Nijsseni double spot ?? I notice that one of
> > > my  Nijsseni fry does have a double spot
> > >
> > > George
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh yeah on the nijsseni, I also have a double spot variant.  Talked to Uwe
> > > > Romer about this and he noticed it as well.  In this last spawn I have
> > > > double spot females and males....hmmm....if I had the tank space I may try
> > > > spawning them, and see how true this is.  I always get one or so a batch
> > > > now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com.
> > > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> > > email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com.
> > > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 


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Many answers to old questions

by Kathy Olson <kathy/thekrib.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999
To: apisto <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

I am going to combine a few things here...ie nijsseni spawing, parental
stuff and Seachem buffers.

Okay everyone I apologise on the old post responses.  Basically if they
are old I don't respond unless I feel like there is something new to add.
Since nijsseni are one of my favorites I couldn't resist.  As usual life
got hectic and now I am wading through 400+ apisto email messages (for
those of you who don't know I am a resident in Internal Medicine and
depending on my scedule, recently off the ICU, I pop in an out of the list
but have been here for over two years now)

By the way Cory, I have nijsseni fry, now ready to spawn and extra females
if you want some.  First come etc.  I also sold to Steve in Vancouver last
year so he may have some as well.

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, ALEX PASTOR wrote:

> Is it possible that this fish is proving difficult or impossible for some
> people to spawn etc. because the fish obtained had been raised without
> parental care?  The things I am reading about the fish eating their spawn

Okay, you guys can pummel me for the for bringing up parental thing.

I have had over 10+ spawns of my nijsseni, quit counting awhile ago.  The
first four to five was in pH 6's water and soft (Seattle tap) with no
avail.  Then I finally gave up and went for the Seachem buffer (only fish
I have had to for, not uaupesi/Rotkeil, gibbiceps etc).  Now on this we
did a lot of testing before adding it too the tanks.  We would mix the
water up days in advance.  Add the buffer, watch it plummet to 3's or
sometimes lower and then come back up to the 6's.  No way were we going to
do that to our fish.  So we experimented and found the right dosage to get
the water to the 5's after aging and not bounce around.  I think anyone
doing the chemical buffer thing should age their water first.  The pH
elevator is hell on the fish.

Spawning...when I did get fry the female would eat them.  So the only way
I could raise them was to remove the fry/or mom.  It was a 20 long leaf
tank and
the male always had to come out within 24 hours of spawning or it was a
blood bath.  After the first few acid water changes they were spawning
without it.
I moved them to a heavily planted leaf tank, but missed taking the male
out (was on call at the hospital) and she killed him.

My next set of nijsseni, I had 3 females and one male in a 10gal.  Two
females spawned with the male, I had to pull the third.  That was in tap
water (still it is soft and in the 6's in the tank).  The male took the
fry and raised them.  8 made it, not a great yield, but I had no extra
space, and still had left over fry from a previous spawn.  Turned out to
be 5 females and 3 males.

Turns out the fry that I had to pull and raise without the parents, were
better parents themselves and I didn't need to pull fry.

I haven't seen any lose of instinct in the fish I raise, just different
strokes for different fish.  I raise them with there parents if I can, if
not I pull them.

Oh yeah on the nijsseni, I also have a double spot variant.  Talked to Uwe
Romer about this and he noticed it as well.  In this last spawn I have
double spot females and males....hmmm....if I had the tank space I may try
spawning them, and see how true this is.  I always get one or so a batch
now.

Kathy (or if you prefer Kathryn K. Olson M.D. ;-), but let me escape from
work! )




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Nijsseni temperature.

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Here I go again. Römer's study on sex ratios shows that for A. nijsseni, a
temperature of 26ºC (79ºF) and pH 5.5 for the first 2 - 4 weeks will result in a
50/50 ratio of males to females. His graphs show that at a temperature of 23ºC
(73.5ºF) only 15% will be males if raised in a pH of 4.5, 10% in pH 5.5, and
about 5% in pH 6.5. At 26ºC, 60% will be males at pH 4.5, 50% at pH 5.5, and 45%
at pH 6.5. At 29ºC (84ºF), 95% will be males at pH 4.5, 85% at pH 5.5, and 75% at
pH 6.5. So you see, temperature is much more important than pH in determining sex
ratios.

The following is a translation of de Rham's (the discoverer) and Kullander's (the
describer) 1982 paper (Apistogramma nijsseni Kullander un nouveau Cichlidé nain
pour l'aquarium. Rev. fr. Aquariol. 9(4): 97-104). This is the first description
of the male A. nijsseni. The original description used only females. It also
describes the history behind when, where, how, and why this species got into the
hobby, its biotope, and what fish were found living with it. Yes, ASG members can
get copies of this paper and its translation from me.

"An analysis of the place was made by a Peruvian limnologist, on 1/9/81 at 12:30,
yielding the following results:

Air temperature: 29ºC (84ºF)                CO2: 0.9 ppm
Water temperature 25ºC (77ºF)             Total hardness: 7.5 (!!!!)
Conductivity 14 µS/cm                          Temporary hardness: 0.03º
pH: 5.6 (probably more acidic)             Calcium: 0.5 ppm
02: 6.45 ppm                                          Chlorine: 1.6 ppm"

These values appear to match Römer's very closely, but remember water values vary
with the seasons so these might not be the same as those during their normal
breeding season. Here is an indication that total hardness isn't as important as
carbonate hardness for blackwater fish. Compare the above values with those
below,  given by Linke & Staeck in their book:

Date & time: 6/28/83, 5:00 pm                 Total hardness: <1º dH
Air temperature: not given                         Carbonate (temporary)
hardness: <1ºdH
Water temperature: 27.5ºC (81.5ºF)
Conductivity 3 µS/cm

Things change with the seasons.

Hope this helps.

Mike Wise


Douglas Dunlop wrote:

> I have some Nijsseni which are my pride and joy.  I have always kept them at
> around 73 F with the temperature in the summer going up as high as 80F.  I
> usually induce them to spawn by creating the "rainy season" by doing a water
> change with about 30% tank volume of 68 F water.  I have recently read of
> someone who bred them at significantly higher temperatures (84F).  Does
> anyone have any data from actual collection sites that would suggest which
> water temperature is most appropriate?
> Doug
>
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Importing Wild Apisto's

by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999
To: "INTERNET:apisto/admin.listbox.com" <apisto/admin.listbox.com>

Mike wrote:

>Let us know what A. sp. Coriati looks like, will you?

Coriat used to export A. panduro under that name soon after its discovery.
I also know that a few other exporters refuse to use A. panduro or A. sp.
"Pandurini" and istead use names such as A. sp. "Cleste" or A. sp. "New
nijsseni". 

Julio


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A. nijsenni breeding revisited

by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

My last spawn of njisseni came after I let the pH creep up a bit, then
dropped it. You might also try some competition, although a 10 gallon is
a small apisto tank. Dithers will sometimes trigger spawning. I find if
I put a breeding pair of any apisto in a tank beside njisseni where they
can see them, they get territorial and then get active.
Gary




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A.nijsseni fem. Flank Patch

by "Max Gallade" <m.gallade/jdneuhaus.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000
To: "Apisto/Majordomo. Pobox. Com" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

Hi all,
I like to pick the collective brain on this:
I'm keeping  a trio of A.nijsseni in a large heavily planted tank, 75g.They
bred several times for me and the first spawn is 120 days old now.I have 4
females from the first spawn.2 fem.without any side blotches,1
fem.w.blotches on both sides,1fem.with only one blotch on the right side of
her body.One of the adult female has two!! side blotches on the right side
of her body and only one on the left.The second blotch on the right side
looks like a faded black rectangle and is smaller in size than the regular
blotch.Let me call
her fem1.The other adult fem.has two side blotches=fem2.
I noticed that the fem1. became the dominant fem. and occupied a large area
in the middle of the tank.My male spends most of his time around her and her
fry(they always have youngens).Once in a while he sneaks over two fem2,
which took up quarters in a small corner of the tank,swims around for a
short time and immediately heads back to fem1 and her fry.He spawned with
fem2 several times as well.
Fem2 doesn't even go near fem1 but chases away any other DC that comes near
her territory.
I noticed similar behavior in my juvenile fem..The ones with two side
blotches are more dominant than the ones without any patches and are not
bothered by the other juvenile females.
I suspect that the patches resemble some sort of ranking among the group of
fish.A males chooses the dominant females to breed with and lower ranks stay
away from them.
I saw a good example of this theory on Richard Attenborough's Life of Birds
series on PBS:
Common Sparrows have a rank system like that.The birds with the brightest
and biggest black chest patch are the highest ranked birds=Generals.
The birds without any patches are the lowest in the pecking order=Soldiers.
The Generals always get first choice over food,nesting grounds,females and
resting areas.
What y'all think?
Max

A.nijsseni fem. Flank Patch

by Kathy Olson <kathy/thekrib.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000
To: "Apisto/Majordomo. Pobox. Com" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

Max,

I had noticed my very prominent one spot females rule the tank and the no
spot (on one side )  lose out if there is more than one female in a tank.

For awhile I was going to try and consistently do a two spot tank, but
used it up for a new species.  Now with my last 3 spawns there have been
no two spot females.

I think there may be something to it....need more research and data
collection on that one.  But cool observation.

Kathy


On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Max Gallade wrote:

> Hi all,
> I like to pick the collective brain on this:
> I'm keeping  a trio of A.nijsseni in a large heavily planted tank, 75g.They
> bred several times for me and the first spawn is 120 days old now.I have 4
> females from the first spawn.2 fem.without any side blotches,1
> fem.w.blotches on both sides,1fem.with only one blotch on the right side of
> her body.One of the adult female has two!! side blotches on the right side
> of her body and only one on the left.The second blotch on the right side
> looks like a faded black rectangle and is smaller in size than the regular
> blotch.Let me call
> her fem1.The other adult fem.has two side blotches=fem2.
> I noticed that the fem1. became the dominant fem. and occupied a large area
> in the middle of the tank.My male spends most of his time around her and her
> fry(they always have youngens).Once in a while he sneaks over two fem2,
> which took up quarters in a small corner of the tank,swims around for a
> short time and immediately heads back to fem1 and her fry.He spawned with
> fem2 several times as well.
> Fem2 doesn't even go near fem1 but chases away any other DC that comes near
> her territory.
> I noticed similar behavior in my juvenile fem..The ones with two side
> blotches are more dominant than the ones without any patches and are not
> bothered by the other juvenile females.
> I suspect that the patches resemble some sort of ranking among the group of
> fish.A males chooses the dominant females to breed with and lower ranks stay
> away from them.
> I saw a good example of this theory on Richard Attenborough's Life of Birds
> series on PBS:
> Common Sparrows have a rank system like that.The birds with the brightest
> and biggest black chest patch are the highest ranked birds=Generals.
> The birds without any patches are the lowest in the pecking order=Soldiers.
> The Generals always get first choice over food,nesting grounds,females and
> resting areas.
> What y'all think?
> Max
> 
> 
> 
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Nijsseni fry!

by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001
To: apisto/listbox.com

ok , heres to dispell any of the norms of Nijsenni.

All the juvies actually sexable sized nijsenni are from a pair that
spawned in a 5 gallon tank.   I had them in there as a quarantee tank
until i could get a bigger tank set up for them.    I guess 3 flower
pots, sponge filter and water was all that they needed.....

I ended up with about 50+ fry from that pair...  first spawn was the
trick for them.....  I normally use a ten gallon tank for my Nijsenni...
I like to put at least one or two more flower pots then number of fish
into the tank.... gives them a chance to select where to spawn and where
to hide..... i have found that large Male Nijsenni tended to be fry
eaters with younger fish being better spawners and parents..... My
experiences here, so dont jump at me please.

I have always used a varied diet, frozen bloodworms, baby brine shrimp,
tetra bits ( oops color bits ) flake food and live daphnia went it
doesnt crash in the summer on me.
This always kept them well conditioned.   I have also found that my
Nijsenni liked the water warmer for spawning, near 80F....    Although i
have had them spawn in 75F water...   My tap water is around 6.5 pH and
15ppm Hardness.
In older more established tanks the pH drops into the 5 something range
and they love that.

Anyways ..... my experiences with Nijsenni

John

Response to Panda Spawnings

by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001
To: apisto/listbox.com

Ok Mike

Im jumping in here...... First off.. I need to be flown out to the
islands myself to see your set up.  I can only then give you my "Expert"
advice. 

Ok so i dont have any expert advice..   but i can share with you my
experiences.    Nijsenni can be very tempermental.    I have personally
found that they spawn better in Pair set ups with no other fish in the
tank.  No dithers, no extra males, no extra females.    They will just
kill off everyone else until there is just a pair left.   I have never
had a problem putting any two fish together, not needing to let them
naturally Pair Off.    Boy meets Girl is normally all it takes.   But
They are fussy about the water.   I've read where they need very soft
very acidic water to spawn..... ah humbug!!!!   What they do need is
water that is very clean.   I have successfully spawned them in 7.0 pH
water as well as 5.5 pH water.   Of course my hardness was less then
50ppm each time.   TDS might be a big part in sucessful spawnings.    I
have had them spawn in water with temps in the Mid 70's as well as water
with temps in the mid 80's.
Personally I prefer to set them up in 80F water.

Tank size isnt important here either.   I mainly use 10 gallon tanks,
with several terra cota flower pots, bare bottom and a hydro sponge
filter.   Do cover the tank well though.    For some reason Nijsenni
like to jump!!   Dont ask me why , but i have had a few crispy critters
on the floor from time to time.   Now i cover the tank like i would with
a Rivulus Killie tank,,,, NO space anywhere for them to get out!!   I
have used 20 gallon long tanks before but found the best tank is a 15
gallon sized tank.   I have had them spawn in a 5 gallon tank and raise
fry!   Alot depends on age and size of the breeders.
Younger smaller breeders will do fine in smaller quarters where as
larger Adults do better in the 15 gallon tank.    I dont know if you
have ever seen a truly adult Male Nijsenni but they can get rather
large.   3 Inch males SL ( not countin the caudal fin) is reachable
size.   NO Lying!!

   Foods for them is fairly easy.... I feed BBS to the adults as well as
juvies and fry.   I also use frozen blood worms, tetra color bits,
daphnia and flake food as my varied diet.   Flake food is for my busy or
lazy feeding days!!!   But they readily take flake.   I wouldnt try to
use flake as my primary food though!

Once they spawn, you have to watch the pair.   Some times males tend to
be egg eaters.   If this is the case , pull the male, Mom will be fine
with the kids!!!    If She becomes fry eaters... well then Yank both
parents once the fry become wigglers.... OH boy..... Flame shields Up!!
But Ive raised fry both ways, with parents, with one parent and
artificially away from the parents....  If you must do them
artificially, remove the parents and use the spawning tank as your
rearing tank.   For some reason , i never had good luck moving fry out
of spawning tank until they were at least 1 week old past free swimming
stage.   I prefer to just use the spawning tank as my rearing tank.
Moving parents is easier then moving babies.    

Ok sorry for rambling on here.   Hope this helps you out!!

John

Ps.. We have had frost on the ground here in Tupper lake already.....
Fall is here!!!   Leaves are looking great already!!

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