Apistogramma juruensis
Contents:
- Hello!
by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com> (Sat, 24 Oct 1998)
- A. juruensis
by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 24 Nov 1998)
- A. juruensis
by Randy or Deb Carey <carey/spacestar.net> (Sat, 28 Nov 1998)
- A. juruensis
by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com> (Mon, 30 Nov 1998)
- juruensis
by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 15 Oct 1999)
- A. sp. aff. juruensis
by "Mike Jacobs" <mjacobs2/tampabay.rr.com> (Sun, 17 Oct 1999)
- A. sp. aff. juruensis
by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Sun, 17 Oct 1999)
by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998
To: "INTERNET:apisto/majordomo.pobox.com" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>
> A. sp. aff. juruensis has two conflicting collecting
>localities, one near Pucallpa, Peru and one farther north near Iquitos,
>Peru. As I understand it colors seem to be the main difference.
Mike is right. Both localities have been suggested for A. sp. aff.
juruensis. However, earlier this year we confirmed the Upper Rio Nanay as
the collecting locality for at least one species that resembles A.
juruensis, the only obvious difference being that the Rio Nanay species is
mostly yellow below the lateral band. This yellow color extends to the head
and caudal fin.
Julio
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by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
Jason,
I was hoping someone else might answer this question. I know I can't answer this
question to my satisfaction, but here goes.
There is very little visible difference between the two. When David Soares first
got these fish he ID'd them as A. juruensis because at the time there was only
one cacatuoides-complex species that had a caudal peduncle spot separating the
lateral band from the tail. I would have done the same and actually did when he
asked me to verify his ID. Römer concurred this ID and everyone accepted it until
collection data came in. It was reported to come from around Pucallpa and more
recently from the Rio Nanay, both on the left (west) bank of the Rio Ucayali, the
major tributary of the Peruvian Amazon. The type locality of A. juruensis is the
upper Rio Juruá, a major southern tributary of the Brazilian Amazon (Rio
Solomões) in western Brazil. Now the question was, "Is Soares' & Römer's fish the
same species as A. juruensis but now with a much wider distribution, or a
completely different species?" Preserved specimens were sent to Dr. Kullander who
identified them as not being A. juruensis, but a species showing close affinities
to it, thus the name A. sp. aff. juruensis.
The question of how to tell live specimens apart is a good one. We know that A.
sp. aff. juruensis has a yellowish streak above the lateral band, but I don't
know how this differs from the true A. juruensis. I've never seen anything
written on the live coloration of the true A. juruensis. I don't even know if
it's ever been in the hobby. Heiko Bleher collected in the upper & middle Rio
Juruá in 1997, but I never heard of him collecting this species (other apistos,
yes, but not this species).
If anyone has additional information or comments on this topic, I would like to
hear about it.
Mike Wise
Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:
> Could someone explain the differences between A. juruensis and A. sp aff
> juruensis (orange breast)? I'm presuming that it there are some significant
> ones as it is not cf!
> Thanks
> Jason
>
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by Randy or Deb Carey <carey/spacestar.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com, Mike Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Pardon me for being late on this, but I was out-of-town for the week of Thanksgiving.
Mike, are the fish that Soares misidentified the ones that came into Milwaukee around
'93? I know that some shipment came in there and a few were sent out for
identification with the response being "juruensis." This fish was then distributed
around the country to various Apisto-keepers. (I was one.)
--Randy
Mike & Diane Wise wrote:
> Jason,
>
> I was hoping someone else might answer this question. I know I can't answer this
> question to my satisfaction, but here goes.
>
> There is very little visible difference between the two. When David Soares first
> got these fish he ID'd them as A. juruensis because at the time <snip...>
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by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998
To: "INTERNET:apisto/majordomo.pobox.com" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>
>Could someone explain the differences between A. juruensis and A. sp aff
>juruensis (orange breast)?
All I can add to what Mike has already said is that the "Orange Breast" is
coming from German breeders and do have a striking similarity with the sp.
aff. juruensis from the Upper Rio Nanay. "Yellow Breast" would be more
appropriate. This yellow breast coloration sometimes extends to the caudal
fin and head.
One note on the Pucallpa population. It is possible that this population
comes from the East bank of the Ucayali, in which case there might be some
gene flow between the true juruensis from the Rio Jurua and the Puallpa
population since both localities are not too far apart.
I haven't seen Dave's juruensis in a while but as far as I can remember
they were more bluish than yellow.
Mis 2 centavos,
Julio
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by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com
Gary,
Several new cacatuoides-like species have appeared in the hobby recently.
The fish that in the past was called A. juruensis is actually an undescribed,
closely related, species that has gone under several names lately. Both Koslowski
& Warzel discussed it under A. sp. aff. cacatuoides in the past. I listed it as
A. sp. juruensis in my lists. Recently Staeck proposed the name A. sp. Pucallpa
because this is where it comes from. Koslowski didn't think this was a good name
since Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis has been called the Pucallpa dwarf cichlid
in the past. He proposed the name A. sp. Schwarzkinn (Black-chin) because of the
prominent black chin on both sexes.
The true A. juruensis has recently been imported into Germany from its type
locality in the Rio Juruá. These two species can be differentiated by several
features:
A. juruensis has a more pointed head, no black chin (or very little), and blue
(barely enlarged) lips. A. sp. Schwarzkinn has a blunter head, black chin, and
enlarged reddish cacatuoides-like lips. Both species, of course, have a lateral
band the ends in front of a caudal spot. All other species are like A.
cacatuoides. They have a lateral band that runs into the tail without a caudal
spot.
Erlässer collected a cacatuoides-like fish from the same areas as A. juruensis
that has a bright orange stomach, dorsal and anal fins. This may be just a color
form of A. cacatuoides.
Numrich collected a new, undescribed, cacatuoides-like fish, too. It is from the
Juruá, too, but looks like no other known species. The males of A. sp. Juruá, as
this form is called, also has orange fin colors, but this color is limited to the
upper and lower edges of the tail fin. They are much more elongate than the other
species of the group and show bright iridescent body scales. The females resemble
A. norberti in body shape and color. It is a blackwater species.
Your fish doesn't sound like any of these. Maybe it's new. I could possibly tell
more if I saw a photo of it. Hope this helps.
Mike Wise
Frauley/Elson wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a lovely Peruvian fish here, identified as Apisto. juruensis.
> I've seen the juruensis come and go, and at the point they went, they
> were generally cacatuoides. This fish is weird though - like a yellow
> cacatuoides but where many cacatuoides will have a mottled patch on the
> caudal, these beasties have bright yellow ventrals, mottled from top to
> bottom. It's very pretty and striking, especially when males are
> courting the slightly larger than the average wild cacatuoides sized
> females.
> The males have the usual cacatuoides dorsal extensions, however, all
> fins except the ventrals are clear or yellowish.
> Any comments from anyone?
> -Gary
>
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by "Mike Jacobs" <mjacobs2/tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999
To: <apisto/admin.listbox.com>
Mike........OK, let me see. For years I was told that A. juruensis had a
"Fu Man Chu" on his chin. Now that's out the window........whew!!! Then
the article by Romer and Soares in the Cichlid News a couple of years ago
was not the real A. juruensis.........? Folks I am NOT trying to holler at
anyone the least of which would be Soares or Romer but it seems crazy that
they wouldn't know what they were talking about! I'm really talking to
myself here! Ok...so is the A. sp. aff "juruensis" of my pictures really an
A. cacatuoides color form???.....with a "Fu Man Chu"......heh, heh, heh!!!
A.sp. Schwarzkinn (Black-chin) ...........I think my head
hurts...................then will the real A. juruensis stand up??? Where
can we see a picture of it???......is Bork&Mayland pg.80 OK??????...it looks
to have a black chin!!!
Mike
Mike Jacobs
Center for Advanced Technologies
Lakewood H.S.
St Pete, Fl 33705
mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>
To: <apisto@admin.listbox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: A. sp. aff. juruensis
> Mike,
>
> Nice photos. The photo you list as A. juruensis (from D. Soares) is
probably A.
> sp. Schwarzkinn (Black-chin) since Soares is the person who originally
> distributed this species in the hobby. Römer took specimens back to
Germany for
> distribution there. Did this fish have a black chin?
>
> Mike Wise
>
> Mike Jacobs wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > The pictures of A. sp. aff. juruensis are up........
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Jungle/4327
> >
> > There are two pics of A. sp. aff. juruensis and one pretty bad pic of A
> > juruensis I had several years ago. First page down at the bottom is the
> > link!!
> >
> > Have a super day!!!
> >
> > Our Luck held once more.............NO HURRICANE!!!!!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Jacobs
> > Center for Advanced Technologies
> > Lakewood H.S.
> > St Pete, Fl 33705
> > mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
> > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> > email apisto-request@listbox.com.
> > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List
Archives"!
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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Archives"!
>
by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com
Mike,
Like everything in this fascinating genus, more data means better IDs. In the
early 90s all we knew about A. juruensis was based on the original description
and their preserved types. At the time A. juruensis was the only cacatuoides-like
species known to have a caudal spot. When David said he had this species, I asked
him to describe it. Once he said it had a caudal spot, I agreed with his ID.
Römer saw the fish and concurred. Now fast forward about 8 years. We collect A.
juruensis from the type locality. It doesn't look quite the same as the balck
chinned form that we had been calling A. juruensis. We find that the black
chinned form comes from Peru, around Pucallpa, not the Rio Juruá of western
Brazil. Obviously they appear to be 2 different species. Now another
cacatuoides-like species with a caudal spot, but doesn't look quite like the
other 2, is found much farther north, in the Rio Nanay. It's probaby another
species, probably the one Gary was asking about.
The only photos of the true A. juruensis is by Staeck in: Staeck, W. (1999):
Noch einmal: Apistogramma juruensis Kullander, 1986. DCG-Informn. 30(1): 1-6. I
don't have the reference yet.
Mike Wise
Mike Jacobs wrote:
> Mike........OK, let me see. For years I was told that A. juruensis had a
> "Fu Man Chu" on his chin. Now that's out the window........whew!!! Then
> the article by Romer and Soares in the Cichlid News a couple of years ago
> was not the real A. juruensis.........? Folks I am NOT trying to holler at
> anyone the least of which would be Soares or Romer but it seems crazy that
> they wouldn't know what they were talking about! I'm really talking to
> myself here! Ok...so is the A. sp. aff "juruensis" of my pictures really an
> A. cacatuoides color form???.....with a "Fu Man Chu"......heh, heh, heh!!!
>
> A.sp. Schwarzkinn (Black-chin) ...........I think my head
> hurts...................then will the real A. juruensis stand up??? Where
> can we see a picture of it???......is Bork&Mayland pg.80 OK??????...it looks
> to have a black chin!!!
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Jacobs
> Center for Advanced Technologies
> Lakewood H.S.
> St Pete, Fl 33705
> mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>
> To: <apisto@admin.listbox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: A. sp. aff. juruensis
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Nice photos. The photo you list as A. juruensis (from D. Soares) is
> probably A.
> > sp. Schwarzkinn (Black-chin) since Soares is the person who originally
> > distributed this species in the hobby. Römer took specimens back to
> Germany for
> > distribution there. Did this fish have a black chin?
> >
> > Mike Wise
> >
> > Mike Jacobs wrote:
> >
> > > Folks,
> > > The pictures of A. sp. aff. juruensis are up........
> > >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Jungle/4327
> > >
> > > There are two pics of A. sp. aff. juruensis and one pretty bad pic of A
> > > juruensis I had several years ago. First page down at the bottom is the
> > > link!!
> > >
> > > Have a super day!!!
> > >
> > > Our Luck held once more.............NO HURRICANE!!!!!
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Mike Jacobs
> > > Center for Advanced Technologies
> > > Lakewood H.S.
> > > St Pete, Fl 33705
> > > mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
> > >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
> > > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> > > email apisto-request@listbox.com.
> > > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List
> Archives"!
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
> > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> > email apisto-request@listbox.com.
> > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List
> Archives"!
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids
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