The Krib
Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids
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The Krib
Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids
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[E-mail] | |
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Apistogramma hongsloiContents:
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video still by Erik Olson
Photo by Tim Ellis
Photos by Ken Laidlaw
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Folks........My experience with A. Hongsloi was the same as Kaycy's. As a matter of fact I got them also from Dave Soares. To shorten the story, I didn't know the first time the pair spawned till I was siphoning the tank and saw the tiny free-swimming fry. She then proceeded to eat all but one fry......then she died. after a long wait the young fry was a female and then proceeded to spawn with her dad.....small spawn 13 - 14 made it! I have given 5-6 away and have 8-9 left. I agree with the color......mostly yellow - no red. When Dave came back from Germany this last time he brought back a pair of A. hongsloi that were "hand picked" by a Willie &^^%....(forgot his last name)....he said they were better than any of the AQUALOG pic's. Several weeks after getting home they had lost all of the coloring. Food?????????? Dave then talked with Willie and willie said .....cyclops!!!!!!! Your call...........I never heard of cyclops producing that kind of color.....but then I haven't heard of a bunch of things!! Have a good day all.........I'm finally back on line after the school just re-wired for two weeks.....but boy am I flying....almost a true 56.6.....are you jealouse? eh eh eh eh eh! Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto-at-majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request-at-majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
>Does anyone on the list have/ever had A.honsloi. just >interested after seeing the superb specimens in the Aqualog >book. I purchased a pair of A. hongsloi from David Soares a couple years back and they did just fine for a year and a half and continuously spawned for me. I fed them mainly newly hatched baby brine and occasionally fed them finely ground flakes. They were great with their eggs and fry. I had them housed in a 10 gallon tank with a shallow layer of fine sand, a ceramic flower pot, and a sponge filter. I put the pot in the back of the tank with the filter towards the front. I only had one female and one male. After a bad time in my life and then moving I lost the breeder pair and I had already sold all the fry when they were large enough. Now, when I have spawns, I keep at least 10 fry back just in case of such demises. I don't know what they look like in the Aqualog but mine had a lot of yellow but no red stripe along the bottom of the bottom. Very gorgeous fish in their own right. I don't know if David still has these or not. Just info. Don't know if this helps you any. Kaycy ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto-at-majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request-at-majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
I agree with the A. hongsloi ID. It sounds like the blue-form that used to be called Rotstrich (Red-streak), a beautiful fish. It comes from around Puerto Ayacucho, Venezuela just above (south) the mouth of the Rio Meta. Most A. hongsloi do come from the Colombian side of the Orinoco, but Venezuela has some, too. I'm sorry your honest question got so many angry replies. You did the right thing in asking. If you hadn't ... Like our teachers always said, "There are no stupid questions". Mike Tim Ellis wrote: > Steve, > > I can't tell you much as I'm a novice to this hobby. The most I could find out is > that the collector lives in Venezuela, > the fish were collected from the Laguna Provincial in Puerto Ayacucho, Venezuela. > The thought that the fish are in the > Hongsloi genus comes from the locale of collection, and the bright yellow coloration > the male has on his head back past the > gill plate. The male has a very large dorsal that extends almost to the end of the > tail, the anal fins are the same length, > the pectoral fins are sky blue, there is also a red caudal spot and some red under > the abdomen by the anal fins. They also > have very small, pointed mouths.The female was a dull grey until she went into brood > colors(she has not lost them yet). > The female is a very bright yellow with ablack checkerboard pattern on the sides. > These fish have turned out to be very > prolific spawners as well as showing admirable parental care. I have been following > the lfs formula for water and temp. > The water is 1 dgh, 1dkh, 6.0-6.5 ph, 82 degrees Fah., heavily planted tank with > lots of african root wood.(this wood is very > dense and decomposes really slow). The tank mates include a pair of A. Iniridae and > four Otto cats(used to have A. Macmasteri, > but thats another thread). The tank they are living in, a 70 gal show, was going to > be my community tank, but has turned out > to be the largest nursery I've seen yet. I get a lot of ribbing for this. I was told > the Whittley's would do best in a > 20 gal. breeder by themselves. If they do any better than now I am in trouble. You > know how the wives get about new tanks! > I don't have access to the proper photography tools to get a decent picture yet, > still looking. Please excuse the terminology, > I hope I have helped. I would love to trade for some Apistogramma Opal Borreli's or > Trifasciata, or even some Pelvicachromis > Taeniatus or Humilis. Sounds like big hopes to me, but you never know. > > Tim > > Steven J. Waldron wrote: > > > Tim wrote: > > >Whittley(undescribed at this point, collectors name) is from the Hongsloi genus > > >that it is possible for it to cross breed with a Macmasteri. > > > > Sorry, I haven't been following this thread but curious to know more about > > this "Whittley hongsloi"? > > - Steve > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto-at-majordomo.pobox.com. > > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > > email apisto-request-at-majordomo.pobox.com. > > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto-at-majordomo.pobox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request-at-majordomo.pobox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto-at-majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request-at-majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
Hi Ken. I just started breeding A.hongsloi this past year I have color forms I and II. I have found them to spawn quite readily in water with a Ph of 4.8 a GH of less then 1 with about 30 microsiemens and KH 0. My hatch rates have been superb and all my females have tended their young for at least a month in this water. You can of course see what the outer limits of their tolerance is as far water parameters but this is what has worked for me, and quite succesfuly I might add. I might also add that the female is rather tolerant of her mate after spawning and in an aquarium with enough space he can easily be observed patroling his vast territory from any intruders. Good luck Ken. == David Sanchez Casselberry, FL http://www.mindspring.com/~barbax barbax2@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
--------------567CB56AC436B2EF98B90D7A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ken, Dr. Staeck collected this fish in streams outside of Puerto Ayachuco, Venezuela. There he measured the following conditions: Date 31 July 1989 Time: 11:00 a.m. Air temperature: 32º C (89.5ºF) Water temperature: 25.5ºC (78ºF) Conductivity: 10 µS/cm Total & Carbonate Hardness <1º pH 5.5 This fish can be spawned in moderately soft water (~6ºdGH+dKH) with dKH <3º with a pH about 6. It can be maintained in harder, slightly alkaline water, but with no viable eggs. Hope this helps. Ken Laidlaw wrote: > Hi, > Can anyone offer any tips on the water conditions for > breeding A.hongsloi? > Thanks, Ken. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! --------------567CB56AC436B2EF98B90D7A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Ken, <p>Dr. Staeck collected this fish in streams outside of Puerto Ayachuco, Venezuela. There he measured the following conditions: <p><tt>Date 31 July 1989 Time: 11:00 a.m.</tt> <br><tt>Air temperature: 32º C (89.5ºF) Water temperature: 25.5ºC (78ºF)</tt> <br><tt>Conductivity: 10 µS/cm Total & Carbonate Hardness <1º</tt> <br><tt>pH 5.5</tt><tt></tt> <p>This fish can be spawned in moderately soft water (~6ºdGH+dKH) with dKH <3º with a pH about 6. It can be maintained in harder, slightly alkaline water, but with no viable eggs. Hope this helps. <br> <br> <p>Ken Laidlaw wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hi, <br>Can anyone offer any tips on the water conditions for <br>breeding A.hongsloi? <br>Thanks, Ken. <p>------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br>This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. <br>For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, <br>email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. <br>Search <a href="http://altavista.digital.com">http://altavista.digital.com</a> for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!</blockquote> </html> --------------567CB56AC436B2EF98B90D7A-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
I spawned mine in ph.5.4 and 10ppm. hardness.I think they would spawn in a higher ph.than this as they were one of the easyer apistos I have spawned.Has anyone noticed the growth rate for these fish?Mine are growing at a phenominal rate.They are about 2 months now and I have norberti that are 3 months andsome of the hongsloi are almost twice the size.I have never seen a apisto grow so fast. Vern.
Bob, The A. sp. "red strokes" is a population of A. hongsloi. Julio ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
Bob, After reading all the responses that you got I am more convinced than ever that the original name - be it in English, German, or Lower Slobovian (sensu Lil' Abner, does that date me?) - should be the name used. "Punkt" is German for "spot, dot, & point", so Rotpunk mean red spot, dot, or point. Rotpunkt refers to the red spots (or dots) that lay above the anterior part of the lateral band in this fish. Considering the fish, the name would be better translated as red spot or red dot, not red point. As Julio says, Red Stroke is an English translation of Rotstrich, but a poor one. The blue form of A. hongsloi, with a red caudal peduncle and red streak along the base of the anal fin was originally called Rotstrich Apistogramma. "Strich" in German means "stroke, line, dash, streak, or stripe. Considering the fish, the name would be better translated as Red-streak or Red-line, not Red-stroke. >From your limited description I can't say which species you have. My bet would be A. hongsloi (Rotstrich). Mike (for nomenclatural purity über alles) Wise (LOL) IDMiamiBob@aol.com wrote: > I ended up with a pair at the auction that were labeled A. sp. "red strokes". > They were in the show as well under that name. Does "red strokes" translate > out in German to "rotpunkt", or is this a different fish? It has the > "zipper" on the lateral line and a subdued red in the unpaired fins. It is > redder in my tank than it was in Detroit. > > Bob Dixon > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@listbox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
Rotstrich has been in the hobby for a long time, and I assume the German and Czech commercial breeders have been trying to select for colourful specimens, in much the same way as with veijita. I know rotsrich comes from Colombia and Rio Cataniapo comes from just across the border in Venezuala, but have there been recent documented collections of these fish? The German rotstrich I've seen recently seem to be losing the vivid red/blue colour contrasts they had 2 or 3 years ago, but I wonder how close the superb rotstrich I used to have were to the wild form. I had fish just like the Linke photo in about 95-96. I find a lot of the macmasteri group fish to be hard to get now, except via Germany, as interest has shifted to the exciting new species of the Rio Negro/Xingu etc. I know Mike Wise mentioned having guttata, but I haven't heard much about recent imports of macmasteri/hoignei/hongsloi /veijita or new macmasteri group fish. Could any of the readers of German enlighten me? Gary
Gary, You have brought up some interesting questions. I don't think I can answer them completely, but here are some tidbits. The original Rotstrich Apisto was imported to Germany from Colombia in 1975. Over the next 10 years imports arrived off an on, apparently the same color population, to keep the Rotstrich in the hobby. Additionally, hobbyists, mainly in then East Germany and Czechoslovakia, started concerted campaigns to domesticate this species and developed a spectacular Rotstrich with unusually brilliant reds, blues, & yellows. Interestingly, the Rotstrich, even when originally imported, was a much deeper bodied fish than the type material used by Kullander to describe A. hongsloi. In 1991 Dr. Staeck reported on A. hongsloi and introduced the Rio Cataniapo form. This Venezuelan form was more yellow and rarely, if ever, shows the red caudal patch and anal streak of Rotstrich. Instead these areas are black. This form also does not have the deep body of Rotstrich. It is more similar to Kullander's type material (from Colombia). It is a good possibility we are looking at several sibling species - how many I don't know. I am not even sure that the original Rotstrich is the real (type locality) A. hongsloi. Although it probably is A. hongsloi, it doesn't precisely fit the original description of this species. Obviously more collecting & distribution data is needed. I imagine that the loss in color from the original Rotstrich is caused by 2 factors. First, the original Rotstrich domestic varieties were developed and distributed by dedicated hobbyists. Since then commercial operations have taken over. Because these operations are interested in profit as much as quality, many substandard specimens have entered the hobby. It is like comparing commercial Guppies to those sold by Guppy breeders. The difference is like night & day. Second, I fear that crossing of forms has occurred many times. The females of the different forms are virtually impossible to separate. When new blood is added to a colorful domestic strain, breeders usually use the most colorful male and most robust female. This crossing may dilute the color of the original domestic population. I'm not sure, but I think that the Colombian rebels & drug cartels operate out to the area where the Rotstrich originally was exported from. If true, the area may be too "hot" to collect right now. As for the problem between the two hobbyists over A. hongsloi, I can empathize with both sides. One, in good faith, was providing what he was told was (& sold commercially as) A. hongsloi. Did he know that all A. hongsloi out there were not Rotstrich? Probably not; most hobbyists think A. hongsloi = Rotstrich Apisto. The ASG's Apisto Species List has listed Rotstrich as A. hongsloi (Blue Form) for 10+ years. Their members should have recognized the difference. The other, in good faith, expected Rotstrich Apistos, not necessarily A. hongsloi, and was disappointed that the fish were not the Rotstrich. Does the fault lie with the purchaser or the seller? A bit of both, I guess. Any seller, from my biased (and it is biased) opinion, should know as much as possible about the fish he keeps. On the other hand, the buyer should be very specific about what he wants. If I had been looking for Rotstrich, I would start asking the seller specific questions: Does the male have a bright yellow face and sky blue flanks? Is there a lot of red in the dorsal fin? Is it a deep bodied (chunky) fish? and most important Doe it have a broad bright red tail root and red streak along the origin of the anal fin? If the seller responds "Yes" to all of the above then he has Rotstrich (or is lying through his teeth) and I would feel safe in buying them sight unseen. If they came in different from what I described (the supplier was lying) then I have a justifiable reason to be angry. If I didn't ask the appropriate questions, and then received something other than Rotstrich, then I only have myself to blame. Too little - and at times too much knowledge - on one side is a dangerous thing. Mike Wise Frauley/Elson wrote: > Rotstrich has been in the hobby for a long time, and I assume the German > and Czech commercial breeders have been trying to select for colourful > specimens, in much the same way as with veijita. I know rotsrich comes > from Colombia and Rio Cataniapo comes from just across the border in > Venezuala, but have there been recent documented collections of these > fish? > The German rotstrich I've seen recently seem to be losing the vivid > red/blue colour contrasts they had 2 or 3 years ago, but I wonder how > close the superb rotstrich I used to have were to the wild form. I had > fish just like the Linke photo in about 95-96. > I find a lot of the macmasteri group fish to be hard to get now, except > via Germany, as interest has shifted to the exciting new species of the > Rio Negro/Xingu etc. I know Mike Wise mentioned having guttata, but I > haven't heard much about recent imports of macmasteri/hoignei/hongsloi > /veijita or new macmasteri group fish. > Could any of the readers of German enlighten me? > Gary > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@listbox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
swaldron@slip.net wrote: > Hi Mike, > Thanks for your thoughts. I know it is a hongsloi and I know that is a > polymorphic species. Despite Helen's misinterpretation of my words, I was > not attacking your expertise, just questioning what you had meant by: > > >Considering where they > >were collected, I wouldn't be > >> surprised if this form was part of the initial > >wild stock used to develop the > >> domestic Rotstrich strain. Koslowski (1985, p. 95) wrote in his book, "In the past the frequent crossing of A. hongsloi with the other species of the macmasteri-group led to the loss of the blue [Rotstrich - mw] form in the hobby.". We don't know how many populations of A. hongsloi were used to develop the Rotstrich form in the 1980s, but it probably wasn't exactly the same fish that Staeck introduced in 1976. > I know that if I > >wanted to add some "wild blood" into > >> my Rotstrich strain, I would not be afraid to > >use your form. > > Presently, the "rotstrich" might be the result of years of domestic > selection but the fish I was referring to is depicted on pg. 69 of the > englsih version of Linke and Staeck(and thought was receiving from Tim) is > what we used to call "rotstrich" and is naturally occurring variant - that > is where I became confused by the previous statement. All I meant - and this was basically for Tim, not other apisto list members - was that since the Alto Carinagua form has the same blue/yellow coloration of the domestic Rotstrich that I felt that this fish could be crossed with line bred Rotstrich if someone wanted a different blood line in their strain without radically changing the strain. It would be the preferred population presently available from the wild since the wild Rotstrich isn't coming in. Many of the other forms now available are more yellow and brown in color. Personally, I feel that inbred strains like Rotstrich do not need outcrossing if proper selection of breeders is utilized, but others think differently. I don't know if the mentioned Staeck photo is of a wild form or a domestic form. I have never seen a truly wildcaught Rotstrich form, but if you have I'll accept that they exist. > Actually the Alto Carinagua > >form seems to be intermediate between the type forms and Staeck's original > >Rotstrich form. > > This was my concern with Tim's fish- is this a natural intermediate or an > inter-populational hybrid? By definition, a hybrid is usually considered a cross between species. If you want to consider cross breeding of populations of the same species as hybrids, then most of the colorful aquarium strains of apistos are hybrids - including Rotstrich (see Kullander's statement above). If you, or anyone else, is worried about getting hybrids, then I certainly wouldn't buy what is now almost certainly a domestic color strain. > I can't say that I'm familiar with every > naturally occurring hongsloi variant but i have seen my share of wild > caught imports over the years and this form looked strange... In what way? I have seen my share of photos & fish of different populations, too, including one in Schaefer's book, "Erfolg mit Zwergcichliden" (p. 43 bottom), that quite closely corresponds with the description of the type specimens. As anyone who has this book can attest, it is far from being spectacular, with no red on it at all. The other male A. hongsloi on the top of the page is more like Tim's although it doesn't show the blue & yellow color much at all (poor lighting?). They certainly don't look like Rotstrich, but in truth it is Rotstrich that doesn't look like the typical A. hongsloi. > thinking back > to the situation- prior to getting the fish from tim I spoke with some guy > working at a fish store in Texas who had supposedly captured the fish in > the wild and had sold Tim his stock- he described the male looking like a > "rotstrich (i.e. linke and staeck pg. 69) but the offspring were obviously > coming up looking different from that form and that is where some > suspicions arose. Tim gave me the name of the collector of his fish, an expatriate American now living in Puerto Ayacucho, Colombia. Is this the same person you are talking about? Tim also provided me with the precise collecting locality (including a map!) for his fish, based on what the collector gave him. This collector is fairly well respected in the hobby, so I tend to believe him and his collecting data. The real Rotstrich (deep bodied, blue/yellow form) is now rarely if ever seen in the hobby (Does anyone out there still have it?). None of the new books on apistos have pictures of it except for the Rotstrich picture you mention in Linke & Staeck. But this photo is over 15 years old, published in their 1984 1st edition. Schmettkamp pictures this same form in his 1982 book & Koslowski has a picture of it in his 1985 book. Since then all photos of A. hongsloi are of other populations or domestic strains, none with the deep body (bd ~50%) of the true Rotstrich. None are listed as Rotstrich, either, except for A. sp. "Red-stroke" in Southamerican Cichlids II (p.68). This is an incorrect ID. Actually this looks a lot like the fish Tim sent me, but with a bit more red on the body. Even the authors admit it is similar to A. hongsloi I. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that it was collected around Puerto Ayacucho like Tim's. There are some deeper bodied forms, but none are as deep as the original Rotstrich. They are probably crosses between the deep body Rotstrich form and some of the more typical A. hongsloi forms. I hope this clarifies my statements for you. Mike Wise > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@listbox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
Steven, I will admit that I have never seen a "traditional" wild caught Rotstrich in the flesh. And I do accept that there are more colorful forms (populations) of A. hongsloi out there than Tim's Alto Carinagua form. But your statement that "it is not the same animal" puzzles me. Do you mean "not the same population" or "not the same species"? I will accept the former, but not the latter. A. hongsloi is recognized as a polychromatic species (Koslowski, 1985; Zenner, 1989; Staeck, 1991). In particular the amount of red on the fish is known to be highly variable even within individual populations. Presently the form known as A. hongsloi (Rotstrich) is a highly developed - and beautiful - domestic strain, bred over the past quarter century using fish from several populations to enhance the amount of red on the fish. The original Rotstrich in the hobby were introduced by Staeck (1976) using fish collected in Colombia. We don't know where his fish came from, but it was obviously more colorful, at least in the red parts, than the Alto Carinagua form. And based on Kullander's (1979) original description, both the original Rotstrich and Alto Carinagua forms are more colorful than the (2) type populations. In the original description Kullander's writes, "Hongslo noted the coloration of the NRM 11236 lot when freshly killed: "Ground-colour light grey-green. Stripes on belly and cross-bars on flanks grey-green. Lateral band dark grey-green"." (The fish were probably collected with Rotenone.) There is no mention of any red caudal patch or anal fin base stripe. I would expect that at least some red would be visible - and noticeable - on freshly killed fish if it was as extensive as on Staeck's Rotstrich. It's visible on freshly dead domestic Rotstrich as an dark red color. Staeck's Rotstrich were also deeper bodied, so I doubt that they came from Hongslo's type populations. Actually the Alto Carinagua form seems to be intermediate between the type forms and Staeck's original Rotstrich form. Regardless, body coloration is not necessary for apisto species ID (Haven't I heard this somewhere before??). In this respect, the Alto Carinagua form actually conforms more closely to the type forms than do Staeck's Rotstrich! As I said in an earlier message, the problem seems to be the 2 hobbyists' concepts of "A. hongsloi" and "Rotstrich". One can consider "Rotstrich" to mean all forms of A. hongsloi, but this is wrong. Someone else may consider "A. hongsloi" to mean Rotstrich exclusively, yet this is wrong, too. Rotstrich is merely a colorful population of A. hongsloi. If you want a highly colorful form of A. hongsloi, ask for Rotstrich - and make sure both sides understand what "Rotstrich" means. If you are more interested in getting a unique population, search out the species with a known collecting locality. I will stick with my ID, the Alto Carinagua form is A. hongsloi, but not Rotstrich. Mike Wise swaldron@slip.net wrote: > I respect your opinon Mike but have you ever seen a "traditional" wild > caught "Rotstrich" hongsloi? In the flesh, not just from photographs or > written descriptions? I have on two occasions (rare import: this out of a > 14 year career lurking wholesaler's tanks) and it is not the same animal. > > >I was recently sent some fish to verify an ID. > >This was a fish that someone on the list claimed > >was a hybrid. I was asked to forward the reply to > >the Apisto Mailing List: > > > >> Tim, > >> > >> I was surprised when I received the pair of fish > >you sent me. I was expecting to > >> see something like Werner's A. cf. hongsloi > >(Maripa) [Römer Atlas p. 483] or > >> Staeck's A. cf. hongsloi (Cataniapo) [Linke & > >Staeck p.70], especially since the > >> Rio Cataniapo is just east of Puerto Ayacucho on > >the Venezuelan side of the > >> Orinoco. Instead if find a fish that looks more > >like the traditional Rotstrich > >> Apisto. After looking at your A. hongsloi in > >various moods I can't see anything to > >> make me think they are anything but wild caught > >A. hongsloi. The body depth is the > >> same as that described in the holotype. The > >lateral band shows the same open > >> lattice form of the type material. The other > >dark markings seem to conform fairly > >> closely, too. The colors, although not as > >intense as domestic bred fish, are the > >> same as those of Rotstrich - yellowish head & > >breast and pale blue flanks. The red > >> caudal patch & the streak along the insertion of > >the anal fin (not described on > >> the type material, by the way) are there, too, > >just not as large, continuous, or > >> extensive as on domestic bred Rotstrich. > >Although not as spectacular as the > >> domestic Rotstrich forms, your fish are > >definitely more colorful than some other > >> forms I have pictures of. Considering where they > >were collected, I wouldn't be > >> surprised if this form was part of the initial > >wild stock used to develop the > >> domestic Rotstrich strain. I know that if I > >wanted to add some "wild blood" into > >> my Rotstrich strain, I would not be afraid to > >use your form. I do, however, hope > >> you will try to keep this population pure. I > >hope this puts your mind at ease > >> about what you have. If you have any other > >questions please let me know. > >> > >> best wishes, > >> > >> Mike Wise > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >This is the apistogramma mailing list, > >apisto@listbox.com. > >For instructions on how to subscribe or > >unsubscribe or get help, > >email apisto-request@listbox.com. > >Search http://altavista.digital.com for > >"Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. > >For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > >email apisto-request@listbox.com. > >Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! > > Steven J. Waldron > > http://WWW.ANURA.ORG > "Natural History, Captive Husbandry, Conservation and > Biophilia of Tropical Frogs" > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@listbox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!
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Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids 
The Krib
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This page was last updated 02 July 2000 | ||
