The Krib Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids	[E-mail]

Checkerboard cichlids

by sisnera-at-aa.res.com (Andre Sisneros)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <3k311h$8d7-at-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, pdoor-at-ix.netcom.com (Peter
Bonetti) wrote:

> Can anyone help me with info on what were sold to me as checkerboard 
> cichlids?They are about an inch long and are not supposed to get much 
> bigger.Any info reguarding water chemistry, breeding habits anything 
> would be appretiated. Thanks.

As Erik stated, these are probably Crenicara filamentosa which is also
known as Dicrossus filamentosa.  These is another cichlid that is closely
related called Dicrossus maculata which is almost indistinguishable from
filamentosa when they are young.  However, macualata is very rare so you
probably have filamentosa.

Both filamentosa and maculata like very acid soft water.  They also like
warm water.  The tank that has my filamentosa is pH=5.5, °GH=6(108ppm),
and temperature=83°C.  I also had to slowly introduce flake food which
they would not accept at first.  I now feed roughly equal feedings of
frozen bloodworms and tetra flake.  The filamentosa are beautiful fish.  I
highly recommend them as long as you can meet their requirments.  

One last thought.  These are very peaceful fish that do not do well with
any larger more aggressive fish in the tank.  One way of dealing with this
is to have a heavily planted tank to provide security and many places to
hide.  I use floating pennywort and water sprite which are very easy to
grow, in fact I have to remove the extra growth once a month and sell or
give away the extra.  Good luck.  Please e-mail me with any other
questions or just to let me know how the fish are doing.  I love hearing
anyones experiences with S.American dwarf cichlids.

Andre
sisnera-at-aa.wl.com

Checkerboard cichlids

by sisnera-at-aa.res.com (Andre Sisneros)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <GWLANG-2003951210220001-at-gwlang.monsanto.com>,
GWLANG-at-ccmail.Monsanto.com (Gary Lange) wrote:


> I thought that the C. or D. maculata was known as "the hercules" cichlid
> and as implied by the name it can get very nasty.  Thought it was 2X
> larger in length and 4x or more in weight.  I guess they might look
> similar when small though.  I've seen these several times at Beldt's
> aquarium in St. Louis.

The hercules cichlid is C.punctulata and is indeed a very different
looking cichlid.  D. maculata is very nearly identical to D. filamentosa
when young and when they get older the relationship is still very
apparent.  D. maculata lack the lyretail but one could argue that the body
colors are even more spectacular.
I have seen punctulata several times but I have only seen pictures and
read about maculata.

> The people that were successful with breeding this beautiful "lyretail
> cichlid" used a much lower total hardness than you stated.  They were
> closer to 50ppm.  At higher hardness values the eggs weren't fertile. 
> They also had used some peat in the filter.  You could use peat in your
> filter to lower the hardness slightly also.  

I am getting an RO system and will slowly adapt my filamentosa to softer
conditions with the RO water.  I do hope to successfully breed them.

> If you want to breed them I would suggest adding some live foods to their
> diet.  Get a culture of daphnia going, feed some whiteworms once in a
> while or start a tub of mosquito larva in the backyard,just be sure to
> keep after it so you don't make mosquitos :^)  They don't enjoy light too
> much so plants that can fair better in darker conditions will work out
> better.

Cryptocoryne willisi seems to be an exellent plant for the filamentosa. 
The top of the tank is also filled with water sprite.  As for food, I have
been looking for a starter culture of anything!  I want to get white worms
as I understand they are very easy.  I do use newly hatched brine shrimp
every once in a while.


Andre

Checkerboard cichlids

by hougen-at-deci.cs.umn.edu (Dean Hougen)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

There have been several attempts to respond to the original question
about Checkerboard Cichlids, and all of them have added some
information not contained in previous replies, but all have also
contained their own inaccuracies, so I thought perhaps it was time I
chimed in to clear things up.


First, the fish usually referred to as Checkerboard Cichlids are
Dicrossus filamentosus.  (Actually, there is some controversy as to
whether or not they currently reside in Crenicara, rather than
Dicrossus, but I'm sure that they will be regarded as Dicrossus
filamentosus soon enough, so we might as well start getting used to
it.)  Prior to this, they were properly (though rarely) known as 
Crenicara filamentosus and improperly (though almost exclusively)
known as Crenicara filamentosa.  It is under this last (improper)
name that you will almost always find them referred to in the hobby,
though as you can see from previous replies, the improper reference
"D. filamentosa" is becoming more common.

They are dwarf South American cichlids, growing to 2" SL for males;
females stay slightly smaller.  They require black-water for 
successful breeding, which means very soft (DH < 3), acid (pH < 5),
water loaded with tannins.  And, as mentioned by Andre, the water
should be quite warm (80+).  The female lays her eggs on the upper
surface of broad-leaved plants.  Many breeders have found harem-
breeding to be most successful.

They will survive on flakes and frozen foods, but Gary's suggestion
to add live foods is a good one.  One of the easiest to obtain is
newly hatched brine shrimp.  Er, that is to say, *adults* will 
survive on flakes and frozen foods; I'd definitely go with micro-
worms and newly hatched brine shrimp for fry.  

Erik is right that the males have beautiful lyre-tails.  He's also
right that they loose their checkerboard pattern when breeding.
However, they do *not* look like they are about to die at this 
time.  Instead, they radiate health and vigor and show much more 
blue and green than when in their non-breeding dress.


D. filamentosus is most closely related to D. maculatus and to an
undescribed species from Peru.  D. maculatus was referred to by 
Andre, and he is right that they are extremely rare in the hobby.  
D. maculatus has a rounded tail, rather than a lyre, so adult males
easily distinguished from adult male D. filamentosus.  The 
undescribed species can easily be distinguished from both nominal
species, even at a small size, as it possesses four rows of 
rectangular spots along the side, rather than two rows of square
spots, as in the other two.


The "Other Checkerboard Cichlid" of the hobby is Crenicara 
punctulatum.  It is this fish that Erik's "guy at the fish store"
was thinking of when he said that females change into males.  See
Gunther Zupanc's book for a discussion of this.  Conveniently,
males and females can be easily distinguished by the color of the
pectoral and anal fins.  In males they are clear, in females 
orange.

It is also this fish that Gary was thinking of when he mentioned
the "Hercules Cichlid."  That hobby name has nothing to do with
its behavior in the aquarium, however.  Aequidens hercules is
simply a junior synonym for Crenicara punctulatum.  Further, C.
punctulatum is *not* "very nasty."  I've kept them with other
peaceful dwarf South American cichlids such as Mikrogeophagus 
altispinosa and Laetacara flavilabrus with no problem.  They are
very well behaved cichlids, though they do get significantly
larger than D. filamentosus, as Gary says.

There is also another nominal species of Crenicara: Crenicara
latruncularium, which resembles C. punctulatum quite closely in
almost all respects, but can be identified by the facial markings.


The final crenicarine is Mazarunia mazarunii, but I've given you
enough information to absorb for now.


Dean Hougen, cichlidiot.
--
"No bigger than your thumb."  - Oingo Boingo

Dicrossus filamentosus

by Dennis & Karen Eichorst <cichlid/chlorine.eznet.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

I try to keep at least one tank of D. filamentossus going. 
Unfortunately, I have never had any fry hatch.  My best success has been
to keep a group (6-12; at least 3 males) in a well planted tank (30-40
gal) tank.  I have had them spawn about every 2-weeks - females get very
territorial.  pH has been around 7 and moderately hard.  If kept in a
well planted tank they seem to be quite hardy - dramatic difference from
behavior in a typical tank. After water changes the males would actively
display for several hours.  For spawning I believe I have seen
recommendations of pH 4.5-5.5 (!!) and very soft water.  I am planning a
180 gallon planted tank for a Dicrossus species with a pH controller
since I lost a batch after having a CO2 valve loosen up and drop the pH
from 6.5 to 4 overnight. :-(((.  
_____________________________________________
Please remove ".chlorine" from e-mail address to reply

Carlos Eduardo Alves Ribeiro wrote:
> 
> wild-caught Dicrossus filamentosus very cheap: u$0,05 each ! I`ve bought 20
> of them 2 years ago and noticed that they are very water chemistry
> sensitive. The last of them died last month and they were wonderful. But
> I`ve had a problem: I could NEVER breed them. Sometimes a pair acted like
> they were going to spawn but ... nothing.The PH was 5.0 and I made weekly
> 50% water changes. I fed them Tetra Min, Artemia and Enchitrea .Does
> anybody know what could problably have happened ?

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Dicrossus Filamentosus

by "Stuart" <stuart/snoopers.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997
To: "Apisto List" <apisto/listbox.com>

Hi
I had a lot of difficulty with these fish, until a German breeder passed on
the trick to a friend of mine.

It seems the best way of getting viable eggs and fry is to have the
cleanest/clearest water you can achieve, pH 5-5.5, with a hardness of 20
micro siemans (0 dgh/dKH?).

I tried it and after several previous infertile batches of eggs, actually
got to see fry at the free swimming stage, unfortunately I didn't follow
the rest of the advice, remove the Male! (lack of suitable tank space) and
he ate the fry, after some gory battles with the female.

As for tank size, mine bred in an 18in (L) * 12in (W) * 15in (H) tank,
which converts to approx. 15 US gals.

Stuart

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Dicrossus Filamentosus

by lisa wrischnik <wrisch/mendel.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Hi all,

Forgive me if I repeat myself - I think we talked about this earlier on the
list. I was able to get viable fry (16 survived) from one of two pairs kept
in a 15 gal tank at 78 degrees F with pH 5-5.5 using DI water + blackwater
extract and the occasional liter of tap water (a final conc. of <10-20 ppm,
depending on the hardness of the tap water).

I would change about 1/4 to 1/3 tank volume weekly. (Someone earlier
mentioned doing extreme water changes on these guys - I don't recommend it.
I know that my rams hated it - they got ick if I overdid it. I think you
have to balance clean water with stable conditions).

The tank was heavily planted and also contained driftwood that leached out a
significant quantity of tannins, etc. I found that if I turned off all lights
at night, the female would have "lost" her fry in the morning, but when I left
her a night light, she kept them under control. I tried to leave the fry
with Mom, and did so for about 2 weeks, but unfortunately the stress of
reproduction got her sick, so I removed her (and the others) from the tank.
>From other posts,
it sounds as if I actually lucked out, here.

I also fed the adults live brine, baby brine, and frozen bloodworms.

I kept 10 of the fry, and I know that I ended up with at least 2 males (I was
unsure of the effects of this low pH on the sex ratio. I tried to keep the
temp within a range that gives a balanced sex ratio for most apistos, too).

Lisa


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D. filamentosus

by Simon Mann <mann/alf.chem.su.oz.au>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997
To: apisto/aquaria.net

Hi everyone.  Just a follow up on the question I asked about sexing D. 
filamentosus thought some of you at least would be interested.  I have 
six of the little critters and noticed on one 3cm (total length) fish 
that there are two small points appearing on the top and bottom of the 
caudal fin.  Looks like this is about the minimum size for sexing them.  
At least I know I have at least one male but will have to wait a while 
longer to see how many more I have. :)  Thanks to all those who responded 
to my original post.
	Talk about a learning experience.  I bought a trio of A. 
trifasciata about a month ago but have never seen the male show any 
interest in the females at all.  Surprise, surprise on the w'end my 
girlfriend is ahaving a look in abook and says "how come our male 
trifasciata has a two pronged tail and the ones in the book don't?"  Hmmm 
I says.  Looks like the man in the store gave us a male A. steindachneri 
instead.  No wonder he wasn't interested in the females!  Oh well now I 
have to track down a female A. steindachneri and a male A. trifasciata!  
As well as buy half a dozen more tanks!  AHHHHHHHHH.

______________________________________________________________________________
Simon Mann                                     E-mail: mann-at-alf.chem.su.oz.au
School of Chemistry                              Work: (02) 9351-5747
The University of Sydney                          Fax: (02) 9351-3329
N.S.W., 2006, Australia.
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apisto life spans (D. filamentosus)

by wrisch/uclink4.berkeley.edu (Lisa Wrischnik)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Howdy,

Andy says:
>while we're on the subject of life spans, I was wondering if anyone has had
>any experience with Dicrossus filamentosus.  I have read that fry take a
>long time to grow out, and certainly my group is not setting any records for
>growth rate especially when compared to Apistos.
>
>How long have members kept these fish?

I've only had one batch of viable fry so far, and unfortunately all I can
say is that they appear full grown and have started to spawn at 14 months
(with one traumatic move in the meantime). I thought I could discern the
lyreate tail at about 1 1/4 inches or just over 3 cm. I didn't really care
how slow they were growing as long as they were still alive and healthy.
They were spawned and raised in approx. 78 deg F DI water supplemented with
a few liters of tap water (so 10-30 ppm) and Blackwater Extract (Tetra in
this case). I had 2 prs. in a 15L with live plants and driftwood. Mom did
not do well with the other filamentosus around, and I eventually had to
partition the tank. She also would "lose" her fry if I turned off the tank
light.

I have a question regarding all the "red ventral/anal fin mythology"
surrounding these fish. The female who spawned & raised fry was wild and
already had red ventral and anal fins when I bought her. After a few months
I knew she was spawning or at least thinking about it because her fins
began to just blaze red (primarily the anal fin, actually). That's when I
started paying attention and one morning found her guarding fry. Now I had
heard that the fins turn red in response to spawning, but my new generation
(including both my own fry and wild ones that I picked up rather small) is
laying eggs right and left (although eating them after a day or two - I had
14 of them in a 20gal breeder flat, so the density was probably too high)
and I havn't seen the blazing red finnage. I'm now wondering if the color
change doesn't occur until after brood care takes over for the first time,
or if the color is more related to age than anything else. What did you
see, Andy?

Lisa



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apisto life spans (D. filamentosus)

by "samaroo" <samaroo/aracnet.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998
To: <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

Oops!,

in the interest of being concise my last post was too clipped and widely
misinterpreted.  To clarify, I too bought a group of very young, but not
quite fry D. filamentosus (after sitting with a set up tank for 8 months
waiting for their appearance in LFSs!!).  I did not breed them.

It was in Linke and Staeck (1994; 4th ed. translated) that I read of the
very slow growth rate in the fry of these oh so cool checkerboards.  In
light of the short life spans  previously posted in this thread I started to
worry that the fish that I have had for 11 months, and who were presumably
older than I thought according to L & S,  had just about had their run at
life after I had patiently waited for them to mature !!

This becomes relevant because I have not raised them out in extremely low GH
( between 2-3 degrees), and was waiting for them  to get some good size (and
not die) before going to something really soft in the hopes of breeding
them.  I think perhaps I am running out of time.  Your story was encouraging
Lisa, because in the interim I have been reading a lot about the breeding
requirements of this fish and was becoming quite discouraged based on what I
had read.

With regards to the " red ventral/anal fin mythology " the answer may lay in
the original population(s) of your fish.  In TFH, April 1996, Roland
Schreiber refers to an observation that females of the Rio Negro system
exhibit the red ventral/ anal fins after first spawn while females of the
Orinoco population retain their transparency.  The previously mentioned
Linke and Staeck confirm this in their book.  The males of these two
populations also show differences in their tail patterns.  Using the
pictures in L & S I think that my males are of Orinoco origin while my
females are representative of Rio Negro and maybe Orinoco (or prespawn R.
Negro).  Maybe your females (or males) are from different populations.

One last thing.  Does anyone know if there is a more recent edition of the
Linke and Staeck book that I refer to, preferably translated into English?

My apologies for the length of the preceding.

Andy
samaroo-at-aracnet.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Wrischnik <wrisch-at-uclink4.berkeley.edu>
To: apisto-at-majordomo.pobox.com <apisto-at-majordomo.pobox.com>
Date: January 23, 1998 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: apisto life spans (D. filamentosus)


>I have a question regarding all the "red ventral/anal fin mythology"
>surrounding these fish. The female who spawned & raised fry was wild and
>already had red ventral and anal fins when I bought her. After a few months
>I knew she was spawning or at least thinking about it because her fins
>began to just blaze red (primarily the anal fin, actually). That's when I
>started paying attention and one morning found her guarding fry. Now I had
>heard that the fins turn red in response to spawning, but my new generation
>(including both my own fry and wild ones that I picked up rather small) is
>laying eggs right and left (although eating them after a day or two - I had
>14 of them in a 20gal breeder flat, so the density was probably too high)
>and I havn't seen the blazing red finnage. I'm now wondering if the color
>change doesn't occur until after brood care takes over for the first time,
>or if the color is more related to age than anything else. What did you
>see, Andy?
>
>Lisa
>
>
>
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>For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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Archives"!
>


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apisto life spans (D. filamentosus)

by mengerin/cs.utexas.edu
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Howdy,

>   light of the short life spans previously posted in this thread I
>   started to worry that the fish that I have had for 11 months, and who
>   were presumably older than I thought according to L & S, had just
>   about had their run at life after I had patiently waited for them to
>   mature !!

Nah, I had a group of 5 D. filementosus for over 3 years the last one...
a female is still alive, so she'll likely surpass 4.  While they did not
spawn in my tank (I didn't provide adequate conditions), they did live
a long time.

Side comment, not at anyone in particular, I think sometimes we tend to
think these apistos live shorter than what they do so we don't feel bad
when they die.

				Cheers,
				Matthew


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apisto life spans (D. filamentosus) -Reply

by "Kathryn Olson" <Kathryn.Olson/vmmc.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

>>> Lisa Wrischnik <wrisch-at-uclink4.berkeley.edu> 01/23/98 06:11am=20
I have a question regarding all the "red ventral/anal fin mythology"
surrounding these fish. The female who spawned & raised fry was wild and
already had red ventral and anal fins when I bought her. After a few =
months
I knew she was spawning or at least thinking about it because her fins
began to just blaze red (primarily the anal fin, actually). That's when I
started paying attention and one morning found her guarding fry. Now I had
heard that the fins turn red in response to spawning, but my new generation=

(including both my own fry and wild ones that I picked up rather small) is
laying eggs right and left (although eating them after a day or two - I =
had
14 of them in a 20gal breeder flat, so the density was probably too high)
and I havn't seen the blazing red finnage.
>>>>>>>>>>

Now I have another question on these guys.  Erik and I had these spawn on =
a few occasions in the 75 gallon planted community tank and the eggs would =
eventually disappear.  We decided that eventually we would separate them =
out and give them their own place.  Before we could do this the female =
took a suicide dive over the filter. =20
Anyway before she spawned she lacked red ventral fins, and after spawning =
they were bright red. ...after we lost her we decided to pick up some new =
females.  Now in the past we have picked up a group and let them grow into =
their sexes.  This time we definitely wanted females, so looking through =
the tanks, some males we could clearly tell, but I've had what I thought =
were females develop into males.  So this time I thought the red ventral =
fin combined with an otherwise female looking fish was a good bet.  Well =
we picked up two female looking fish and isolated them and now one of them =
is developing male finnage and losing the red ventrals.  Now has anyone =
else run into this.  Can these guys change sex?  (I know Crenicara =
Punctulata can, and Sheepshead (a marine) but I didn't hear of these guys =
doing that).  So, I probably just chose the fish wrong but if anyone has =
any suggestion or opinions, love to hear them.

(be outta town for 5 days but I'd love to hear when I get back).

Thanks,
Kathy


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D. Maculata

by <kathy/thekrib.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Mike & Diane Wise wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> The orange ventrals sent up an immediate flag. Do they all have orange ventrals?
> If so, they are almost certainly all females! Males have blue to purple ventral
> fins and much more colorful tails. Only females who have spawned will show the
> orange ventrals. As to price, only you can determine what they're worth to you
> but $10.00 seems fair to me.
> 


Mike,

I saw a batch of D. filamentosum with the orange ventrals and some very
obvoius males.  We picked up four.  On male and tree smaller with the
orange ventrals.  They acutally ended up turning into males.  All except
one.  Any idea on this.  They were juveniles.  My assumption was that I
couldn't use the orange ventral to sex young fish.

Now with my adults that I have had in the past, I whole hearted agree with
you.  We had a female who lacked the red orange fin until after she had
spawned.  

Kathy


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D. filamentosus

by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Hi,
My friend has recently bred this species.  They were in a 
16x8x8 tank decorated with a fine sand substrate, java 
moss, an amazon sword and a clay saucer.  He also had a 
peat bag in the tank to lower the pH.

The water was about pH 5 when thay spawned.  The male was 
removed post spawning, maybe not required in a largertank.  
We do not know where the eggs were laid as we never saw 
them.

When the fry were free swimming he fed them first with 
micro-worms and then bbs.  The female was left with the fry 
for about three weeks.  They are still growing well.

The male was about 7cmTL, the female 5.

I also had a go with them but sadly the male contracted 
dropsy and died soon after the move to my tank.

Hope this helps,
Ken.

*****************************
Ken Laidlaw
UK Astronomy Technology Centre
Royal Observatory, Edinburgh
Web: http://www.roe.ac.uk
*****************************




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well if its not one its the other... A. uaupesi "red-wedge"

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
To: apisto/pudge.listbox.com

Joel,

I don't remember if you ever mentioned how soft your water is, but until you drop
you pH to around 5.5 and reduce you softness to almost 0 your female will continue
to breed (her behaviors says she has eggs right now) but the eggs won't be viable.
I'd recommend moving them to another tank since these water condition are not
really conducive to most plants.  A 10 gallon tank may be a bit small, but possible
if you keep an eye on the behavior of the fish and water conditions.

Mike Wise

"joel metz, ifbma" wrote:

>  the red-wedge female basically barricading herself into
>  an upturned clay pot saucer... shes been going in and out of breeding
>  colouration (all yellowy with a single black spot on her side) for the past
>  week or so, and the male has been displaying to her off and on during that
>  time as well, the whole fin flashing, tail-swiping routine...
>  tank still hovers at about ph 6.4... ive been pondering
>  bringing down the ph a bit seeing as the tank residents are the filimentosus,
>  the red-wedge, a pair of pertensis and two male gibbiceps (the latter 2
>  species were contaminants in the red-wedge and filimentosus shipments),
>  but i dont think ill do that until i figure out whats going on here...
>
> -joel
>
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Killer Filamentosa

by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Helen Burns wrote:
> 
> Jay,
> I thought filamentosa were pretty docile, I have, at present semi-adults in
> a 36 inch tank with a few young corys and I have no problems with them at
> all.
> It is probably bacteria in the substrate or sharp gravel that is removing
> the barbels from the cory's.
> Helen.

I agree with Helen about both the corys and the filamentosum. I had a
group of six males [you know, buy six expensive juveniles so you can get
a pair :-)] in a planted 33 gallon for well over a year and a half, and
they didn't even nip each other's filaments. Right now, I have a male
and three females, and all seems calm.
D. maculatum seems a touch rowdier in my limited experience, but that is
relative. they're still very peaceful.
Then again, I had a Crenicara punctulata female that was a hellion. She
ended up dominating a Central American cichlid tank. That's supposed to
be a very easy-going species, but clearly, individuals will be
individuals.
-Gary


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D.filamentosus

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Just goes to show that there is nothing new under the sun. Color varieties of
Dicrossus filamentosus were noted as far back as 1976 (Winkelmann, H.  1976.
„Crenicara filamentosa - eine Rarität". Tetra Info. 10(34): 12, and in English as
Winkelmann, H.  1977. Remarks on my article: Crenicara filametosa - a rarity.
Aquar. Digest Intnl. (16): 12). Several books have noted these differences, too -
Schmettkamp (1981), Linke & Staeck (1984-1997), Mayland & Bork (1997).
Winkelman's articles and Schmettkamp's book describe differences in females, too.
Linke & Staeck claim these differences show where the fish originated - the Rio
Negro or Rio Orinoco. These authors emphasize the differences in the caudal fin
of the male & the caudal & anal fins of the female.  I don't know if these are
the same color variations that David is talking about or not. I'd be interested
in learning the differences and collecting locality, if possible.

Mike Wise

David Sanchez wrote:

> just a quick side note here. Has anyone noticed that there are two
> color variaties of D.filamentosus. I was tailking with one of my
> exporters and he was explaining to me that the D.filamentosus I was
> getting were of a diffrent location ( I was I was paying more
> attention as to where, I will ask him next time I go down) Honestly
> perhaps i am not justified in saying that there are color varieties as
> the diffrences are subtle. But overall the overall color scheen of
> this D.filamentosus in question is red as opposed to blue by the one i
> am more familiar with. Most importantly i have spawned D.filamentosus
> quit a few times all from wild fish and never really had any problems
> but these buggers were tuff! i had to really fuss over them before
> they finally got feeling at home and gave me a little shoal of fry. I
> found myself boiling peatmoss, monitering the Ph, and just acting like
> they were the first Dwarfs I ever spawned. I must admit, it was with
> great anticipation that I welcomed mama out from under some bogwood
> with her little shoal!!!
>  And it was not just a pair i had a few dozen. Just wondering if
> anyone had any similar experiences? or is familier with the two
> variations i am talking about? or perhaps it was simply the geographic
> location where they came from?
>
> ---Vern Wensley <vernwen@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > <John wrote
> > I would be playing with all of the harder to spawn like T.candidi
> and any
> > Dicrossus species.>
> >
> > John I have spawned T.candidi in my tap water with added waters of the
> > world.I managed to raise 50 fry out of that spawn.I have also spawned
> > A.pertensis the same way.In a short time I will be getting some
> > D.filamentosus,hopfuly it will work the same for them.
> > Vern.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> ==
>
> David Sanchez
> Casselberry, FL
> http://www.mindspring.com/~barbax
> barbax2@yahoo.com
> _________________________________________________________
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Dicrossus Filamentosus

by Tony Terceira <terceira/ride.ri.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000
To: apisto/listbox.com

                 Hi John,

                 I spawned filamentosus when it was Crenichara filamentosa 
and the only way you found them was as transients in assorted dwarf 
cichlids in New York wholesalers some 20 years ago,  that and the 
checkerboard  would occasionally arrive.

                 I spawned them in 10 gallon tanks planted and they seemed 
to always spawn on coconut shells if they were in the tank.  the pair would 
watch over the eggs for a few days, after which I would remove them and let 
them finish hatching with a light air stone.



i have a complete photographic sequence of these wonderful small fish 
spawning on file somewhere.   The only thing I did that was special in any 
way was give them a tank to themselves and always provided water sprite 
floating to help cut down the light.  The temperature was the ambient in my 
fish room .. about 76 degrees........

                 hope this helps .......................... Tony

At 06:56 AM 12/10/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi John,
>I'm hardly an expert with Dicrossus filamentosus...but I've had a pair spawn
>fairly consistently in a well planted 10 gallon. Unfortunately, I've never
>been able to get hatches, the eggs always eventually fungus over despite my
>using acriflavin, etc. I try to keep the water soft and very acidic.
>--Doug Cushing
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Wubbolt" <BigJohnW@webtv.net>
>To: <Apisto@admin.listbox.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 1:02 AM
>Subject: Dicrossus Filamentosus
>
>
> > Greetings everyone from the frozen Tundra!!
> >
> > Hey I just set up my group of D. Filamentosus up into a 20 long.    I
> > have 1 male and 4 females.   Question here is:  Do they do better in
> > pairs, trios or groups.   Which is the better way to set the up for
> > spawning.     I had them all in a ten gallon tank, since this summer
> > when i picked them up at the ACA.   I figured i better move them to a
> > bigger tank if i ever want them to spawn.   So any suggestions will be
> > appreciated.   Never tried to spawn these guys before.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frozen John
> >
> >
> >
> > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List
>Archives"!
>
>
>

Dicrossus Filamentosus

by "kkorotev" <kkorotev/ameritech.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000
To: <apisto/listbox.com>

Doug,
I, too, had multiple spawns go "bad".
When the male matured enough to ACTUALLY fertilize the eggs, the problem
stopped.
I hope this turns out to be your real problem too.

Unlike others who've responded, I found the females to be pretty poor
protectors and will pull or siphon out the next spawn I find.

Kevin Korotev
Milwaukee, WI
USA

Dicrossus Filamentosus

by Fi205sh/aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000
To: apisto/listbox.com

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Hi John

I thought I'd add my 2 cents on filamentosus. I had 2 males and 4 females in 
a 15 gallon tank with some plastic plants, driftwood, coconut shells, ceramic 
pots and a top cover of water sprite. The water was about 60ppm hardness and 
a pH of 3.5-4.0. Temperature around 80-82. My females were not good mothers 
taking frequent trips around the tank but I could always tell there was a 
spawn by the female showing a solid longitudinal black stripe. The male was 
the real aggressor guarding the area of a spawn.

The favorite place to spawn was a plastic ludwigia leaf. Every female I had 
spawned there. This was situated in the front corner. I had no trouble with 
fertility or raising the fry as long as I kept the water very acid. I did 
raise 40 fry in a 2.5 gallon tank for two months with lots of water changes 
and they grew as good as those with the parents or raised in 10 gallon tanks.

Tom Wojtech

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hi John
<BR>
<BR>I thought I'd add my 2 cents on filamentosus. I had 2 males and 4 females in <BR>a 15 gallon tank with some plastic plants, driftwood, coconut shells, ceramic <BR>pots and a top cover of water sprite. The water was about 60ppm hardness and <BR>a pH of 3.5-4.0. Temperature around 80-82. My females were not good mothers <BR>taking frequent trips around the tank but I could always tell there was a <BR>spawn by the female showing a solid longitudinal black stripe. The male was <BR>the real aggressor guarding the area of a spawn.
<BR>
<BR>The favorite place to spawn was a plastic ludwigia leaf. Every female I had <BR>spawned there. This was situated in the front corner. I had no trouble with <BR>fertility or raising the fry as long as I kept the water very acid. I did <BR>raise 40 fry in a 2.5 gallon tank for two months with lots of water changes <BR>and they grew as good as those with the parents or raised in 10 gallon tanks.
<BR>
<BR>Tom Wojtech</FONT></HTML>

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